*** The Official Destiny Thread (now includes 2.0 and TTK) ***

[LackyT]

They lie, they will continue too lie. The dude was a completely dick about it too. This is better for you guys, we lied for you cause your too stupid too understand. And if we believe them and no one else knew thats worse, how can we expect them too ever communicate well too us, if there is no communication within the company.

From Lars Bakken (competitive multiplayer design lead) in a game informer interview from August.

"Interesting thing about the crucible is that if you take it too seriously you're just going to be frustrated. And it's not because the game isn't balanced or the game isn't fun or whatever......sometimes it's the baggage you bring in from other games. But if you sort of like play it to relax and just have fun it's a really amazing experience."

So tell us then Lars, you weapon, why you added SBMM without telling anyone?? Especially when no one asked for it, lag is still an issue and people want other competitive options (e.g. custom games) instead

 

[Fr0dders]

They really need to up their game in terms of communication. Keep us (the Destiny community) updated on the state of the game (patches, DLC etc) and be more transparent when it comes to the updates themselves. Whilst the updates themselves won't appease everyone (you never can with such a diverse fan base), they will at least remove any doubt over whether they "lied" or "deceived" or w/e is the current message being bounded about in the Destiny Reddit.

At this point I just want detail on the future of the game. I miss the fun I had in Yr 1 and to an extent TTK (mainly running with you guys on here) and I would love to be able to re-kindle that. The current game is stale (albeit still fun if you mix it up a bit) and desperately needs a QoL improvement.

Not starting an argument or have a go here, just starting a discussion. But why must they ? I saw an interview with Deej at E3 where he talked about exactly these kinds of demands from fans and How unprepared they were to deal with them. Why do you feel you're entitled to know about upcoming patches and DLC and detail on the future of the game?

Take a look at other games. Lets take a look at Rockstar with GTA5. You never really know anything about the future of the game. They release nothing until a few days before the latest DLC update comes out. Treyarch are similarly tight lipped about the future of Black Ops 3. They've only announced the detail of one of the planned expansion packs some people have already paid for as part of the season pass. Look at DICE with star wars battlefront or Turn 10 with forza motorsport.

No other developer provides this kind of advanced info on future content releases. I appreciate you're not on your own here (just a quick look of the Destiny subreddit will tell you that) but why are Destiny fans so demanding ? The behaviour is almost like one of a major shareholder in a business.

Why can't destiny fans just play the game they have and be happy with it. If they don't like it, don't play it ?

It needs some new major content, I'm sure they're working on some. My life isn't going to end if I play some other games for a while.

Developers should just stop saying anything about their games until the day it's released, it's become a total no-win situation trying to communicate with these reddit communities.

Release detailed plan of what you're planning on doing = get crucified by baying mobs yelling LIES when you have to change something
Release vague plan of what you hope to do = get crucified by baying mobs yelling LIES when they interpret it differently
Say nothing = get crucified by baying mobs because you don't engage with the community

And herein lies the problem. This is one of the reasons that other developers don't talk about stuff until its released. They've possibly made things worse by talking more.

 

[Davey_Pitch]

They've possibly made things worse by talking more.

I think this is very true. The Destiny community is very vocal and Bungie do try to respond as much as they can. The fact that Bungie have made several changes in the past as a direct result of community feedback seems to have given some members of that community the belief that Bungie has to listen to everything. While I think it's great that Bungie are so involved in the community, they've definitely made a rod for their own backs, without even meaning to.

 

[Fallen god]

From Lars Bakken (competitive multiplayer design lead) in a game informer interview from August.

"Interesting thing about the crucible is that if you take it too seriously you're just going to be frustrated. And it's not because the game isn't balanced or the game isn't fun or whatever......sometimes it's the baggage you bring in from other games. But if you sort of like play it to relax and just have fun it's a really amazing experience."

So tell us then Lars, you weapon, why you added SBMM without telling anyone?? Especially when no one asked for it, lag is still an issue and people want other competitive options (e.g. custom games) instead

Yeah I remember this, if its too relax why even have SBMM, thats only for a competitive game, and within those games they still only have it on a ranked playlists. IB last night was horrid, lets see how it pans out today with their changes.

 

[davetherave2]

Apologies in advance for the length of this post but I hope it gives some balance/my thoughts to the "Destiny is Broken/ Bungie give me all the information now" debate.

For all the criticism that Bungie gets both fairly and unfairly they are in that position of "damned if they do and damned if they don't" Something that the StarCraft II community is probably familiar with as well.

I think a lot of this criticism may stem from the success that they had with Halo and people were/are expecting the same/similar multiplayer experience that they got from Halo which Destiny is not. (I will probably be in the minority but I never really enjoyed the PvP experience in Halo anyway)

I see Destiny's PvP trying to mirror or introduce the same features/ game mechanics from other more "established" PvP centric games like the COD, Battlefield, Gears of War etc. of the world which have had many cycles of games to get it right/wrong (you decide - everyone will say this version of game "______" is the best version because of "______").

Maybe Bungie could learn something from the CS:GO experience and see how that is done. From an outsider looking in Counter Strike's core game mechanics haven't changed that much since the 1.6 days all the changes appear to me more cosmetic rather than core mechanics.

Some of these features/decisions that Bungie "fixed" and subsequently changed have worked to some degree and others haven't, so buffs/nerfs have been introduced to try and "level" the playing field but it hasn't always had the desired effect in their eyes and the eyes of the vocal few.

I think there is so much data analysis that is happening behind the scenes in these games now that a lot of the decisions are being made purely on numbers alone rather than looking at the more "intangible" aspects of the game as in "Is this actually any fun for the more casual/ hardcore player?"

With every change the meta of a game will change and this has been proven as people will naturally change once they have figured out what the best weapon combo is based on the current changes. From my experience at the moment it seems every man and his dog is using a mida/doctrine of passing now. So the variety of guns and equipment becomes a mute point as you are looking for that perfect loot with the "god" roll.

As a casual PvP player in Destiny I find it really frustrating when you clearly find yourself matched up against players which have a greater skill level than yourself so the experience is just not that enjoyable (Give me a good raid session (as frustrating as they can be) any day of the week over PvP)

Maybe the SBMM will address some of these issues but maybe something more akin to the likes of the StarCraft "Skill/Ladder" system should be introduced (obviously when parties are in involved with widely differing skill levels then it should try to balance it out as much as possible). Yes I know it's not perfect but at least you know you aren't going to come up against a Grand Master when you are in the Bronze League (or at least the chances of this happening are very very small). At least that way you can improve and increase your "ladder" ranking amongst similar skilled players and once you can consistently hold your own towards the top of your ladder that's when it starts to introduce you to players of the next "skill" level.

Now this is all fine in theory, implementing it is something quite different I understand, if it was simple then everyone would be a game developer and it would all be perfect.

I think we as gamers do now expect "too much" information, with the twitters, reddits, facebooks, gaming sites of the world I think the "younger" gamer expects to know every little piece of info days, weeks, months in advance so they can voice their opinion, I remember the good old days (maybe showing my age) when the first time you heard about a new game was in the preview section of sega power (or other console/pc magazines) and then you could be waiting months or even years before any more news surfaced.

Now if a feature change comes in which seems to "break" the game then the "few" that get really annoyed (because it forces them to change play styles/adapt to the changes) are the most vocal even if it is a none issue in the grand scheme of things. I am probably in the silent majority who are just happy that they can idle away hours at a time trying to get that elusive 320loot item or farm for wolves (happy days)

I am not saying Destiny is the perfect game by any stretch of the imagination and there are things that should be fixed (more bug fixes i.e. teleporting ogres, firefly crashing etc) but I would suggest to Bungie that maybe they make some of the PvP changes silent like they did with the initial roll out of SBMM so that an "unbiased" opinion can be formed rather than people going the game is broken because of this change/ that change.

I think we are at that point again with Destiny where we have that content drought and people are looking for some insight from Bungie with regards to what are you doing next to keep me playing this. From watching a number of twitch streamers it seems that a lot of the chat is assuming that once the Division is released then Destiny in it's form will lose the "majority" of it's player base and Destiny will be a "dead" game. Like all things in life including games they have their high and low periods.

I suspect that Bungie are so focused on "Destiny 2" that obviously Destiny 1 will suffer with limited content (but having said that the same happened in year 1 between the two expansions coming out), so that all available resources can be put into making Destiny 2 a more expansive gaming experience.

In my eyes if we get another raid then great (bonus) if not then fine (but please try to fix the ogre pathing issues Bungie) I am sure that I will still be playing this all the way up to the release of Destiny 2 and in the mean time if Destiny 1 brings some more worlds on board or new "mini" content to existing worlds I will be happy. SRL was a nice idea but more maps and maybe a "Mario Kart/ WipeOut" style of game mechanic could be introduced or even have SRL relay teams (2 x 3 player teams - 1 lap each passing a "baton")

 

[redrooster303]

I think the reason people want info all the time is because this is a game taking place in a constantly evolving world meaning the game you paid for is constantly changing, sometimes for the worse.

People want to be assured the game they love is not going to become broken or just un-enjoyable. Games like COD don't have this issue because they are somewhat static games that change very little once they are released so the people playing them know they won't be changed in the future.

Me personally, I don't really care what they do or when they do it nowadays as long as its for the better. Obviously I rather have more content etc (and I don't mind paying if its good) but will just wait and see what happens.

I think some people think this game is like wow where they should be kept in the loop, difference with wow is they pay a subscription though. The only real reason for keeping people in the loop where destiny is concerned is the above.

This is just MY opinion.

 

[Fallen god]

I used too play a lot of D3 which isn't a subscription based game but they still give you a lot of info, you have a test server too try out changes a month before it comes out, communication has been good throughout my playing times, and even after I've stopped I still keep an eye on the new changes.

 

[Fr0dders]

I think the reason people want info all the time is because this is a game taking place in a constantly evolving world meaning the game you paid for is constantly changing, sometimes for the worse.

People want to be assured the game they love is not going to become broken or just un-enjoyable. Games like COD don't have this issue because they are somewhat static games that change very little once they are released so the people playing them know they won't be changed in the future.

Me personally, I don't really care what they do or when they do it nowadays as long as its for the better. Obviously I rather have more content etc (and I don't mind paying if its good) but will just wait and see what happens.

I think some people think this game is like wow where they should be kept in the loop, difference with wow is they pay a subscription though. The only real reason for keeping people in the loop where destiny is concerned is the above.

This is just MY opinion.

I know a lot of destiny players have come from an MMO background where they pay monthly subscriptions. Might explain the attitude

 

[redrooster303]

I could understand it totally if people were paying a sub as you are more entitled to good content and the company usually give news freely in order to keep you subbing.

Like people have said though, Bungie made a rod for they're own back by being so open in the beginning. People get used to it etc.

 

[LackyT]

I think a lot of this criticism may stem from the success that they had with Halo and people were/are expecting the same/similar multiplayer experience that they got from Halo which Destiny is not. (I will probably be in the minority but I never really enjoyed the PvP experience in Halo anyway)

Fair play that you didn't enjoy it, but Halo has small key features that were frustratingly left out of Destiny PvP, namely custom games and ranked/unranked playlists.

Some of these features/decisions that Bungie "fixed" and subsequently changed have worked to some degree and others haven't, so buffs/nerfs have been introduced to try and "level" the playing field but it hasn't always had the desired effect in their eyes and the eyes of the vocal few.

IMO, it's the pendulum swing updates. Bungie consistently butcher things e.g. Hawkmoon / non-Exotic handcannons or nerfing arcbolt but keeping firebolt the same. Then they claim it was play tested and we have to wait 3 months and hope someone realises that its not right. Compared this to CS:GO or DICE/Battlefield who do regular, small, detailed tweaks.

As a casual PvP player in Destiny I find it really frustrating when you clearly find yourself matched up against players which have a greater skill level than yourself so the experience is just not that enjoyable (Give me a good raid session (as frustrating as they can be) any day of the week over PvP)

Maybe the SBMM will address some of these issues but maybe something more akin to the likes of the StarCraft "Skill/Ladder" system should be introduced (obviously when parties are in involved with widely differing skill levels then it should try to balance it out as much as possible). Yes I know it's not perfect but at least you know you aren't going to come up against a Grand Master when you are in the Bronze League (or at least the chances of this happening are very very small). At least that way you can improve and increase your "ladder" ranking amongst similar skilled players and once you can consistently hold your own towards the top of your ladder that's when it starts to introduce you to players of the next "skill" level.

Social and ranked playlists is one answer here, but even in social there will always be higher skilled players especially when more of the casual players have left to play other games. 1st world problem that recent SBMM has been so sweaty/tryhard, that I have to constantly play at 100% and grab a solid team to just win games, its stupid for that to be the only PvP option.

I would suggest to Bungie that maybe they make some of the PvP changes silent like they did with the initial roll out of SBMM so that an "unbiased" opinion can be formed rather than people going the game is broken because of this change/ that change.

Sorry, but I could not disagree more.

Why? Why do weekly updates and announcements if they are just going to lie and hide things, you surely want to work with and cater for your community. Lag, custom games and other balancing measures should have been higher priority than adding SBMM, especially when they don't want us to take Crucible too seriously in the first place.

IMO, BO3 handled it really well, they added SBMM and let everyone know, but then backed it out quickly when the community didn't enjoy it.

 

[Yas786]

Well another sweet painless raid run last night, took me and my team about an hr and half to get oryx down. That's from start to finish, think majority of people have now got the hang of the mechanics.

Sadly still stuck at 317 even though I finally got a 310 raid helmet but other than that, most of my drops were pure rubbish. Got 2 exotics that dropped, one a suros regime which is about the 5th one that has dropped but got a 310 bad juju. Would have been nice had a higher light helmet dropped but the wait goes on.

Now onto the division which the beta has opened up, probably the game that will finally get me off destiny for at least a few days.

 

[Mr Gimp]

I hit rank 50 New Monarchy last night after a session collecting all the Ghosts with Je11y (thanks again!) and realised I really don't have anything left to do now.

 

[davetherave2]

Why? Why do weekly updates and announcements if they are just going to lie and hide things, you surely want to work with and cater for your community. Lag, custom games and other balancing measures should have been higher priority than adding SBMM, especially when they don't want us to take Crucible too seriously in the first place.

I see valid points from both sides of the coin as it were with knowing/not knowing changes.

I am not saying Bungie should lie or hide the truth as it will just look bad on them and the trust is lost with the community. Maybe they should look at the mess Microsoft got itself into with the initial announcement of the XB1 and take notes on how not to do it. I am happy for them to give the weekly updates and announcements but a lot of the time I am purely just looking out for what is new rather than the "wall of text" of changes that generally don't affect how I play and enjoy the game.

Going back to my original point, if the silent updates were small enough maybe a percentage point here or there in terms of damage, improved range, accuracy etc. then that gives them a pure "numbers" basis to see the effect on the changes. Alternatively maybe there should be an "enhancements" playlist where these changes can be tested to see the effect like a "live beta".


I guess if people know the change up front that may build a preconceived opinion of the change before they have tried it, so going in with that mind set of "this change is going to break the game because of ________", alternatively it can have the opposite and have "this change will improve the game because of _______".

Maybe by doing the silent change and then getting feedback to see if people can identify the change would be one way to go to test these changes to see if it is success or not. In any "skill" based game there is always going to be balancing issues with weapon types armour etc.

I see this whole process a bit like a 3D movie. If done well you don't focus on the "3D-ness" you enjoy the experience as a whole and the 3D elements compliment the entire experience, but if done badly you see the mis-mash of trying to force 3D elements into situations where its not required like things poking out of the screen for the sheer "gimmick" effect and go "look at my awesome 3D effects".


I agree the vast swings from one sweeping change to another has probably been the biggest problem and I guess Bungie will learn from this (Destiny at any stage is an epic undertaking). One minute my raid pulse rifle was doing ok (purely as I love using it in PvE) then suddenly it seems to be complete garbage and everyone is just running around with a mida. (Unless you are WKD - he does love his hand cannons )

Hopefully Bungie will introduce a more "social/custom match making" playlist into the next game (while there at it maybe we can decide what buffs/nerfs are applied to the game). Personally I would love to see a kind of horde mode like GoW (but I guess the raids to a certain degree are like horde mode i.e. waves of harder and harder enemies)

Maybe doing a comparison between day one PvP versus the current PvP configuration would be an interesting experiment purely to see what the cumulative effect on the overall changes has had.

Ultimately I think we as gamers will never be satisfied unless the game works the way "we" want it too which means someone is going to be upset at some point.

 

[evilmatt]

I hit rank 50 New Monarchy last night after a session collecting all the Ghosts with Je11y (thanks again!) and realised I really don't have anything left to do now.

Didn't you say the other night you don't have a Raze-lighter yet? (Or is my memory being its usual useless self lol) If so, there's at least one thing we can do later hehe

 

[Fallen god]

I guess if people know the change up front that may build a preconceived opinion of the change before they have tried it, so going in with that mind set of "this change is going to break the game because of ________", alternatively it can have the opposite and have "this change will improve the game because of _______".

Thats fair. But the numbers won't include peoples feelings, the numbers won't lie, and bungie mostly uses numbers too justify things (rightly or wrongly).

Maybe by doing the silent change and then getting feedback to see if people can identify the change would be one way to go to test these changes to see if it is success or not. In any "skill" based game there is always going to be balancing issues with weapon types armour etc.

Honestly the game is pretty balanced, the only issue is a few guns will have the best TTK across certain ranges. This is going too happen no matter what, the top players will all find the few weapons at matter and everyone will use those too win.

Also changes don't need too be silent, just smaller. Instead of wiping out a whole class of weapons due too 2/3 that are OP, tweaks those few, or that certain archetype of weapon. The way I've seen things done lack thoughtfulness. At times it even feels a bit random. Thorn OP, we got you guys nerfed FR.

I agree the vast swings from one sweeping change to another has probably been the biggest problem and I guess Bungie will learn from this (Destiny at any stage is an epic undertaking). One minute my raid pulse rifle was doing ok (purely as I love using it in PvE) then suddenly it seems to be complete garbage and everyone is just running around with a mida. (Unless you are WKD - he does love his hand cannons )

They also rekt the Red Death, its so weak now its just stupid, went from 36 damage too 30 and quickly drops too 27 due too its range.[/QUOTE]

 

[Mr Gimp]

Didn't you say the other night you don't have a Raze-lighter yet? (Or is my memory being its usual useless self lol) If so, there's at least one thing we can do later hehe

Damn! Forgot about that. Good shout that man!

 

[evilmatt]

Damn! Forgot about that. Good shout that man!

Good stuff, I just have the Sunless Cell part left to do so give me a shout when you want to go finish it

 

[LackyT]

Alternatively maybe there should be an "enhancements" playlist where these changes can be tested to see the effect like a "live beta".

This, with a way to share our feedback + custom games would be so much better than what we have seen for the past few months.

 

[Robi]

Hi, my name is Thomas and I absolutely love the computer game Destiny.

 

[Fallen god]

Hi, my name is Thomas and I absolutely love the computer game Destiny.

Hahahahahah