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Poll: *** The Official Playstation 5 (PS5) Thread ***

Discussion in 'Console Games & Hardware' started by BMox81, 16 Apr 2019.

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Which PS5 Version will you likely buy?

  1. Digital Only Version

    112 vote(s)
    16.8%
  2. UHD Optical Version

    395 vote(s)
    59.3%
  3. Unlikely to buy either

    159 vote(s)
    23.9%
  1. ic1male

    Caporegime

    Joined: 28 Oct 2003

    Posts: 27,996

    Location: Westchestershire

    It would actually be interesting to see the outcome if Steam offered a popup window so you could select "SSD" or "HDD" as a download option. The developers could cater for PC gamers right now by offering two different downloads. But I guess time/money and all that jazz plus the fact that not all SSDs are equal - SATA v NVMe, etc.
     
  2. TheVoice

    Capodecina

    Joined: 15 Aug 2005

    Posts: 21,341

    Location: Glasgow

    But it still doesn't make sense. Why would a 15GB game duplicate or triplicate all of its data? Especially on a PC where you can't even plan where your data is going to be on HDD platter so duplication would just as easily lead to increased access times. Happy to be proven wrong here but I get the impression a lot of the benefits are hyperbole and a way to justify the reduced storage capacity (which is ultimately a cost issue rather than a "We won't need more storage than this" issue).
     
  3. dcsarge

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 19 Dec 2008

    Posts: 1,954

    Location: Bristol

    I am not a programmer but my understanding is that during install the data is spread out across the platter. That is what the drive controller deals with, addressing data blocks.

    The new system in the PS5 doesn't use traditional addressing, instead every piece of data is given a I.D. code that the new Sony high speed controller uses to handle the data internally. No MBR or any of the current drive registry systems are used, so that is why existing games cannot take advantage of the system. They have to be written with the storage method in mind.

    I am not saying you won't need more storage, games will get bigger (as always) and people always want more storage) but this isn't going to like going back to a small drive. It is more efficient when used as intended, that is why you are better off putting your big old games on an external drive.

    Edit: It has probably been mentioned in here somewhere but for clarity, as it applies to PC games more than consoles, is that you can get around duplication for asset load times by having massive amounts of RAM to cache it into, but consoles do not have that luxury.
     
    Last edited: 9 May 2020
  4. Chuk_Chuk

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 12 May 2014

    Posts: 1,729

    Don't get to hung up dcsarge example on file size. However the installs for certain games does contain multiple copies of the same data.

    You're argument about not being able to control where the data ends up the platter is a reason why they do duplicate data. You want to keep certain chunks of data as close together as possible. In the hope that when you need to call that data they are near to each other.

    For example: say a common postbox that you use all over the game. You want to use it in the downtown section of your map that has different buildings to the uptown(?) side of the map

    You will want a copy of the post box near all the downtown buildings and a copy of the post box near the buildings used for uptown. so when you are loading all the downtown buildings your gambling that the postbox will be right next to that building data, rather than travelling to another part of the disk to collect the post box data that is next to uptown buildings.

    Yes there would be an issue if that chunk of data is split in middle and are on opposite sides of the platter, but it is a gamble they are willing to take.

    I would recommend watching the HDD/SSD section in the PS5 reveal. Start at the 10 min 30 seconds mark for the duplicate example. Hopefully the graphics helps to explain it

     
    Last edited: 9 May 2020
  5. dcsarge

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 19 Dec 2008

    Posts: 1,954

    Location: Bristol

    That will explain it a lot better than I can :D. I don't sleep properly so my mental faculties are not great at the best of times :p.
     
  6. TheVoice

    Capodecina

    Joined: 15 Aug 2005

    Posts: 21,341

    Location: Glasgow

    I've seen the video and do understand the basics behind the methods being used and am not disputing that, I'm just saying I don't trust the numbers going around. If next-gen games are even a quarter smaller than their current-gen counterparts I'll gladly be proven wrong (it'll save me money on an SSD upgrade for the console too) but I'm not convinced that data is being duplicated to anywhere near the extent that some say it is, at least not commonly.

    Hopefully nearer to release some devs will be able to talk a bit more openly about how they're using the SSD performance effectively and what benefit that brings beyond simple load time reductions. The potential is certainly there.
     
  7. Chuk_Chuk

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 12 May 2014

    Posts: 1,729

    Apologies i misunderstand your post. You are right, unless devs come out and talk about it we won't know.
     
  8. TheVoice

    Capodecina

    Joined: 15 Aug 2005

    Posts: 21,341

    Location: Glasgow

    I think it'll be interesting to see how this influences PC gaming too, as much as PCs have had SSDs for many years this could quite easily push some developers to require either a large amount RAM and/or an SSD for PC versions of games also developed with the next-gen consoles in mind. It'd be the first time in a long time that the consoles have been leading the way in that respect.
     
  9. Calin Banc

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 14 Aug 2009

    Posts: 1,153

    Let's not forget Microsoft wants the games that will come in the near future to work on the older consoles as well, so anything "new" has to be exclusive possibly to PS5 or PS5 and PC. With that said, I don't see a lot of games out there that will require truly (and not just due to bad optimization) an extremely fast storage device.
     
  10. Chuk_Chuk

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 12 May 2014

    Posts: 1,729

    I can see it being a combination of both. I belive MS flight sim and star citizen already recommend SSD.
    Depending on the price of RAM especially when DDR5 comes out, developers may need to hold back. However i won't be surprised if within the next 5 years 32GB will be what everyone recommends for mid range gaming PCs.

    Edit: We could also see queue depth and IOPS startring to make a difference.

    Isn't that only for the first year? it won't be long till multiplat start stretching their legs.
     
    Last edited: 9 May 2020
  11. Kreeeee

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 13 Jul 2004

    Posts: 42,359

    Location: /* */

    Only for first party games.
     
  12. ic1male

    Caporegime

    Joined: 28 Oct 2003

    Posts: 27,996

    Location: Westchestershire

     
  13. BMox81

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 7 May 2012

    Posts: 1,237

    Looks fantastic.
     
  14. Bigpig

    Soldato

    Joined: 12 Oct 2006

    Posts: 5,341

    Location: Portadown

    Seriously impressive. Faith restore in next gen!!

    Loved the way the lighting changed when the cave in happened.

    Do you think any specific technology on the PS5 was being used here like streaming assets directly off SSD?
     
  15. ic1male

    Caporegime

    Joined: 28 Oct 2003

    Posts: 27,996

    Location: Westchestershire

    Haven't watched it yet but Tim said the PS5 storage system was world class - better than PCs at this point in time. Sony might have played a blinder here and that extra juice in the Xbox Series X might not surmount to anything in the end.
     
  16. Mobius 1

    Capodecina

    Joined: 29 Oct 2005

    Posts: 13,083

    Holy ****. Impressive :eek:
     
  17. fez

    Capodecina

    Joined: 22 Aug 2008

    Posts: 14,086

    Location: Sidcup

    Dear lord that was mind blowing.
     
  18. marcg868

    Gangster

    Joined: 16 Oct 2016

    Posts: 258

    Location: East Lancashire

    If that’s the future bring it on. Whatever system I pick next gen I can’t wait.
     
  19. Plainsong

    Soldato

    Joined: 5 May 2008

    Posts: 7,369

    Location: Chester

    Amazing stuff :eek:
     
  20. Dano

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 19 Dec 2006

    Posts: 9,476

    Location: UK

    But... but... my teraflops...