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The Rise and Fall of Donald Trump

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by The Geezer, 20 Jan 2021.

  1. Colonel_Klinck

    Soldato

    Joined: 3 Oct 2007

    Posts: 5,094

    Location: London, UK


    I'm guessing there is a long time between now and the primaries. Trump might be up to his neck in legal problems or even a convicted felon by then. Why make yourself a target now and get destroyed by Trump when you wait a year or two and he might be out of the picture.
     
  2. doodah

    Capodecina

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 23,853

    Location: London

    Exactly - all about the short term which right now is Trump = God.
     
  3. StriderX

    Caporegime

    Joined: 18 Mar 2008

    Posts: 27,287

    If I were the Kremlin or Zongnanhai, I might be thinking that this appears like a perfect opportunity to get rid of Trump in an obscure manner whilst engaging in a misinformation campaign to make it seem like the democrat 'deep state' was involved, the near deification of such a flawed, clearly leveraged individual is a disaster waiting to be exploited. Though as a former president, it may well be fairly impossible to actually pull off and if it failed or implicated the actual culprits, well it the risk is as high as the potential reward for them in this case.

    That being said, it may not even matter as it seems that the American Right seem to be obsessed with destroying their country and even something as sensible as having him face up to his probable criminality will likely achieve the same outcome.
     
  4. Colonel_Klinck

    Soldato

    Joined: 3 Oct 2007

    Posts: 5,094

    Location: London, UK

    Really? You don't think their are fascist elements in US right wing politics? Trump flirted with white nationalists, the GOP has flirted and even welcomed them in for decades. Congressman Steve King was a white nationalist that they happily had in Congress for 19 years. He finally said something out loud they couldn't shrug off and he lost his committees in 2019 but they all knew what he was from day 1. Sadly the US has had a problem with the extreme right wing for decades and its been getting worse recently, Trump as good as endorsed them.

    So we have a stage design that is the exact shape of a Nordic rune that the Nazi SS responsible for racial purity wore on their collars. Someone had this design drawn up and it must have been passed by some committee or other and you're saying no one recognised it as this? Just a coincidence? Sorry but I'm past giving the likes of CPAC a pass, its always been full of the hard right of the GOP but recently its taken it to a whole new level.
     
  5. potatolord

    Hitman

    Joined: 21 Jan 2010

    Posts: 587

    So many words.

    I just don't see why the Republicans would choose a nazi rune for their stage design. It's just a bonkers idea. Why the hell would they do that?

    As I said, people are just seeing what they want to see. You hate the Republican party, so you seize on this as as "OMG AMIRITE?", based on your perception of the Republican party. You've got no evidence of the Republicans specifically commissioning a huge nazi symbol as their stage design.

    It's conspiracy theory nonsense.
     
  6. Apex

    Capodecina

    Joined: 12 Feb 2006

    Posts: 12,528

    Location: Surrey

    you must be new in here as this appears to be your first time you've defended the republicans for doing white supremacist things as just a coincidence.

    next you'll be telling us when trump said "stand back and stand by" he wasn't saying for them to stand by, and although they took it as a get ready call and used it as their slogan, this was all a conspiracy and trump just wanted them to stand down, which ended up being the one word he didn't use after being told to use those exact words.
     
  7. StriderX

    Caporegime

    Joined: 18 Mar 2008

    Posts: 27,287

    It's hardly surprising that extremists employ overt symbology to present themselves to an ignorant public, whether or not it was intentional is up to the observer. I would err on the side of intentional at this point considering the spectacularly consistent frequency that these insinuations/associations/statements seem to occur.
     
    Last edited: 2 Mar 2021
  8. Somnambulist

    Capodecina

    Joined: 17 Jun 2010

    Posts: 10,915

    Location: London

    Americans are obsessed with comparing everything to Nazis and Hitler (notice they never compare anything to the Cultural Revolution or Great Terror though). They see it everywhere. Just yesterday...

     
  9. Colonel_Klinck

    Soldato

    Joined: 3 Oct 2007

    Posts: 5,094

    Location: London, UK

    I don't hate the Republican Party.... well I hate what a large percentage of them have now embraced I'll give you that. Having 2 robust parties is essential but they have become a party of extremists and conspiracy theories. Maybe this is just another one of their owning the libs like their adoption of the "ok" hand sign that is used by the alt right for white power. If so it is in very bad taste.
     
  10. Tony Edwards

    Soldato

    Joined: 4 Feb 2018

    Posts: 6,585

    Not sure if posted yet but possibly.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahh...teal-organizers-report-finds/?sh=77d849e537ae
     
  11. PlacidCasual

    Soldato

    Joined: 13 May 2003

    Posts: 6,976

    It must be some sort of mental disorder given the number of people seeing Nazis everywhere. The devaluation and overuse of the word had becoming a sick joke.

    Get a grip, just because you don’t like someone or their politics doesn’t make them a Nazi or a fascist. Constantly calling people out as such just emphasises ones unreliability as a judge of character.
     
  12. Murphy

    Soldato

    Joined: 16 Sep 2018

    Posts: 6,347

    Well if they weren't aware that raises an even more concerning question, if they're unaware of Nazi iconography does that extend to the techniques used be the Nazi's to manipulate the public, the propaganda, and the ideology.

    Because if it does having anyone who hasn't learnt those lessons from history in politics should be deeply disturbing for fear that they'll repeat the mistakes of the past.
    Has the TPAC come out and said it was unintentional like Amazon have effectively done once they were made aware of the similarity? Because it's one thing to make an unintentional mistake it's quiet another to say you were unaware of something and to apologise.
     
    Last edited: 2 Mar 2021
  13. potatolord

    Hitman

    Joined: 21 Jan 2010

    Posts: 587

    I'll be doing that next, will I? Any other predictions you'd like to share?

    I despair of some people, I really do.
     
  14. Colonel_Klinck

    Soldato

    Joined: 3 Oct 2007

    Posts: 5,094

    Location: London, UK


    Its not a case of seeing Nazis everywhere. I would class some on the American right more as neo fascists than Nazis. I'm not the one using Nazis iconography though. And there is still a problem with that ideology in the US. I wish there wasn't, I wish we'd learnt the lessons of history and that evil had been left behind but it hasn't.
     
  15. potatolord

    Hitman

    Joined: 21 Jan 2010

    Posts: 587

    Are you advocating educating people in the minutiae of Nazi iconography? That seems a bit odd.

    I'm well aware of the repugnant actions of the nazi party and the many enabling people who weren't members, thanks.

    A reflexive assumption that dissenters are somehow either nazis or thick is pretty troubling, to be fair.
     
  16. Apex

    Capodecina

    Joined: 12 Feb 2006

    Posts: 12,528

    Location: Surrey

    Yes
     
  17. Murphy

    Soldato

    Joined: 16 Sep 2018

    Posts: 6,347

    No, I'm saying people should be aware of one of the worst moments of the 20th century so we don't risk repeating it, there's no need to learn the small, precise, or trivial details of it just things like the iconography, the techniques used to manipulate the public, the propaganda, and the ideology.

    I also never accused you of not being aware of it, IDK why you'd think i had other than perhaps a guilty conscience. It's also not a reflexive assumption that dissenters are somehow either Nazis or thick, the picture is there for both you and i to see and there's no dissenters, that is unless your suggesting using Nazi iconography is acceptable. I also did not call people thick, those are your words not mine, i said...
    As well you know because it's quiet literally in what you quoted from me.

    If you're going to make an attempt to refute someone's position it would be a good idea to start by not giving the illusion of having refuted or defeated a proposition through the covert replacement of it with different propositions.
     
  18. doodah

    Capodecina

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 23,853

    Location: London

    Lindsey once again quietly admitting access to power is the likely reason he's suffering from faeces on the nose syndrome.
    I wish I was joking but at this stage, would Lindsey grow a spine if Trump slept with his wife and then called her ugly? No.
     
  19. Flibster

    Caporegime

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 34,185

    Lindsey Graham? Married? A southern baptist who is against LGBTQ+ rights and same sex marriage and is currently not or has ever been married and has no children. Let's take a wild stab in the dark shall we?

    There's a reason he's known as Lady G. :D
     
  20. doodah

    Capodecina

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 23,853

    Location: London

    I've heard the rumours but his sexuality has no bearing on how much of a POS I think he is. However I did assume he was at least married :p. Well his imaginary wife, partner or rent boy then :D.