This is striking me as odd

wassap · 28 May 2003 at 11:44

is, lets say, the son of a pakistani family, who was born and lived all his live in the uk, an english or a pakistani?

I fit that criteria, i regard myself as a british muslim.

So why bother with it if R1 plays it as well?

Why bother having a dance station, rock,indie,jazz etc etc radio one plays all them to death too, they all have their own specific radio/tv channels.why have separate movie channels,sports etc cos everything gets on bbc and itv anyway? its all about catering for tastes, i like comedy, so i subscribe to paramount, so peeps who like `black` music will subscribe to that etc etc

Personally i dont mind radio 1 as i get to hear a lot of diff genres, when i want specialised i bang on a cd, the only thing bad about r1 and radio stations in general is the flippin dj`s all anooying and talk too much, if i want innane rambling i will take to myself thanks

Toast · 28 May 2003 at 12:33

Originally posted by pyro
well, i live in the uk, i do not consider myself english, rather i consider myself greek, do i have to leave? i guess the culture is not as different with greece and the uk as it is with pakistan and the uk (e.g. different clothes, religion, etc. ).

Where were you born? If you were born in the UK then you are british in the eyes of the law.

Shadez · 28 May 2003 at 12:36

well, i live in the uk, i do not consider myself english, rather i consider myself greek, do i have to leave? i guess the culture is not as different with greece and the uk as it is with pakistan and the uk (e.g. different clothes, religion, etc. ).

You have gotten the wrong idea.

1) Do you c ur self as brittish, not English (there is a huge difference) are you Brittish Greek or just Greek?

2) Cultrure makes no difference to my opinoin, u can behave and act as you like in this contry (within the law), Pakistani was chosen as an example nothing more i could have said greek.

3) If you want to live and work in a contry then you must agree and accept the control and opinions of that contry. I beleave there are 2 many immagrents, refugees who come into this contry saying im not British (and never will be) but i diserve X, Y and Z because im here.

But at the end of the day i have given the option to you the indiviual wether to say in this contry, all you must do is accept, and adopt Brittish culture. (this doesnt have to meen getting rid of your own)

By saying you are bittish you are taking responiblilty for the contry. 2 many people who live in Britton only c them selfs as english , welsh, scottish, Pakistani, Greek and say Y should a greek...welsh person care or do anything about whats going on in scottland. (example)

pyro · 28 May 2003 at 12:48

Originally posted by Toast
Where were you born? If you were born in the UK then you are british in the eyes of the law.

i was born in greece m8

Originally posted by Shadez
1) Do you c ur self as brittish, not English (there is a huge difference)

can you educate me on that one, i dont really understand it.

But at the end of the day i have given the option to you the indiviual wether to say in this contry, all you must do is accept, and adopt Brittish culture. (this doesnt have to meen getting rid of your own)

i do, i don't see a reason not to, i am in another country so i should respect the culture of that country.

Shadez · 28 May 2003 at 13:05

pyro from what ur saying u are brittish (by my deffinition)

Brittish is a term used to include all people who live in the UK regardless of herritage and culture.

English is only for people born in england, or can trace there herritage to england, same for scottish ect.

i do, i don't see a reason not to, i am in another country so i should respect the culture of that country.

Nice to c a propper immigrant. Can you say the same for everone?

I must support England in the worldcup otherwise im seen as a England hater which is far from the truth.

Hmm just tell them you arnt english so y support england, you are Brittish, as Britton doesnt have a team you dont support. As for the tiny minority to ashamed to admit they are Brittish, except you nationality or go somewhere your not ashamed.

ironman · 28 May 2003 at 13:10

Originally posted by Shadez
As for the tiny minority to ashamed to admit they are Brittish, except you nationality or go somewhere your not ashamed.

But its not possible for everybody to leave, in your position could you pack your bags and move to Canada?

Ive integrated fine as an ethnic minority, I was brought up in a prominant white neighbourhood, ok I recieved some racism, till this day aswell but im still British, but my culture is as strong as my nationality. Hell, our family business is that we provide yorkshire with the good old English traditional food of fish and chips

Toast · 28 May 2003 at 13:27

Originally posted by pyro
i was born in greece m8

Then I personally think that you are Greek. But you are also a british citizen.

If you have kids which are born in England then they will be english.

wassap · 28 May 2003 at 13:29

Hell, our family business is that we provide yorkshire with the good old English traditional food of fish and chips

Youll find you will have to start serving baltis soon

with that seeming to be a british dish now

ironman · 28 May 2003 at 13:33

lol never! Fish and chips is still the UK no1 fast food.

pyro · 28 May 2003 at 13:52

Originally posted by Shadez
Brittish is a term used to include all people who live in the UK regardless of herritage and culture.

fare enough

Nice to c a propper immigrant. Can you say the same for everone?

no, but it is importaint to say that just because some immigrants, i.e. from china are not behavining well, doesnt mean that all chinese people are nesecerally "bad"

Originally posted by Toast
Then I personally think that you are Greek. But you are also a british citizen.

yup, i get your point now.

If you have kids which are born in England then they will be english.

kids? nahhh! too much trouble!

Originally posted by gurdas
lol never! Fish and chips is still the UK no1 fast food.

there's nothing like a good kebab after a night out!

crab · 28 May 2003 at 14:00

Originally posted by gurdas
lol never! Fish and chips is still the UK no1 fast food.

But curry is the No1 meal in the UK

Shadez · 28 May 2003 at 14:14

Ok lets jus clarify things abit.

My problem is with people who live in this country and refuse to be a british citizen. This is only a minority of the immigrants in this contry.(The ones who refuse to intergrate, learn english ect)

In my oppinion you should put being a british citizen ahead of being English, Greek, what ever.

Greek is what you were born to be

Brittish is what you have decided to be (you have a choise on this one),

but it is importaint to say that just because some immigrants, i.e. from china are not behavining well, doesnt mean that all chinese people are nesecerally "bad"

I agree completly, If i gave the impression i didnt im sorry.

in your position could you pack your bags and move to Canada?

Hmm yes i think i could.

Bear · 28 May 2003 at 18:49

Originally posted by Shadez
Ok lets jus clarify things abit.

My problem is with people who live in this country and refuse to be a british citizen. This is only a minority of the immigrants in this contry.(The ones who refuse to intergrate, learn english ect)

In my oppinion you should put being a british citizen ahead of being English, Greek, what ever.

Greek is what you were born to be

Brittish is what you have decided to be (you have a choise on this one),

I agree completly, If i gave the impression i didnt im sorry.

Hmm yes i think i could.

Sorry Shadez I think that is wrong on so many levels. Firstly no one is a british citizen unless they have been born here or has been naturalised and hold a british passport. Someone living in the UK for 1 or even 15 years does not automatically become a British citizen, they have to apply to be one. Believe it or not some dont actually want to !!

If I decide to live in Spain form this moment on it doesnt make me a Spansh citizen, no I am still British. I lived in Holland for just over a year, am I supposed to feel proud to be Dutch !! What a crock.

If Im on my hols and I see British thugs getting drunk and starting on the locals, then throwing their food wrappers all over the floor and harrasing everyone yelling their heads off. The locals look down at you for being British, what do I have to be proud of then ?

Shadez · 29 May 2003 at 09:54

Most of this post is my Personal opinoin.

Firstly no one is a british citizen unless they have been born here or has been naturalised and hold a british passport

I am well aware of the immigration laws.
Where in my posts did i say otherwise????

living in the UK for 1 or even 15 years does not automatically become a British citizen, they have to apply to be one. Believe it or not some dont actually want to !!

Hmm, that leads exactly to my point if they dont want to be Brittish move out of britton, I dont want anyone living in this contry who is not prepared to declare / addmit they are brittish.

I dont want somone in this country for 15 years who isnt Brittish.

If I decide to live in Spain form this moment on it doesnt make me a Spansh citizen, no I am still British. I lived in Holland for just over a year, am I supposed to feel proud to be Dutch !! What a crock.

Legally you are still brittish, my point is if you hate bieing brittish so much become Dutch, No one will miss u over here

The locals look down at you for being British, what do I have to be proud of then ?

Maby this is because you refuse to become Dutch?
Hmm they sound very racist overthere.
Are Rugby team is currently the best in the world be proud of that.

If Im on my hols and I see British thugs getting drunk and starting on the locals, then throwing their food wrappers all over the floor and harrasing everyone yelling their heads off

Hmm so your one of those people who judge the majority for the actions of a minority. :rolleyes:

If you live/ work in a country for more than 3 years then you should addopt that country or whats the point of being a Citizen of any contry?? we could all live anywhere we want and have no ties to the local goverment, dont care what happens to the world around us let it go to ruin........

I see nationalyity as being in 2 parts

Part 1.

your place of birth, in my case England (a region of Britton). This is purly a Geographical thing and has no real baring on how you live your life(you can even chose to completly igonce this part of your nationalyity)

Part 2.

Where you have chosen to live and work, most people will remain in the country they were born. But some like you self chose different. If you chose to spend your life somewhere other than your place of birth then you should become a citizen of that contry. If you refuse this then i think you should be forced to leave.(I am willing to give a period of 3-5 years for them to complete this process)

Ex-RoNiN · 29 May 2003 at 10:23

Shades, your view is very conservative and out of touch IMO.

Take foreign students, for example. They come to Britain for a period of 3-6 years, the only reason they come here is for Britain's superior universities. They don't give a rat's **** about Britain or being British, they come here, get their degree, leave thousands of pounds in Britain that way, then go home never to return. According to your post, you don't want these kind of people :confused:

Then there are guest workers. They come to Britain for a few years, work to make lots of money which they wire down to their families straight away, then after a few years they leave again. Whilst they may be grateful for the opportunity of having worked here, they still don't want to be British.

Take legal aliens, for example. Whilst they want to live in Britain for whatever reasons, no one has to force them to "think" of themselves as British, they can still think of themselves as Greek or whatever they are and yet respect the country they live in and become a member of it WITHOUT giving up their national identity. This works very well, but you would want those people out.

Regarding your part 2, I lived 17 yrs in Germany, just 2 in Greece, do I have to give up my Greek citizenship to become a gerry? Hell, the only thing I like about Germany is Sauerkraut, Dortmund football club and the good placement I will be on in a few months time!! Apart from that, I quite hate the place. I think of myself as completely Greek, am proud of it and have no shame of saying so.

ironman · 29 May 2003 at 11:12

Originally posted by Shadez
Hmm, that leads exactly to my point if they dont want to be Brittish move out of britton, I dont want anyone living in this contry who is not prepared to declare / addmit they are brittish.

I dont want somone in this country for 15 years who isnt Brittish.

Why not? Its not like they owe you anything. They pay their taxes, that should be enough. Your coming across as forcing people to become British at their will otherwise they will be looked down upon. Your no different from say religious advertisers going round forcing views down peoples throats.

There's something called freedom of speech aswell, but I take it as long as its nothing bad about Britain its fine?

Get with the times man.

Shadez · 29 May 2003 at 11:16

I dont think im getting my POV accross here. You are missreading my posts.

Ex-RoNiN, If you read my last post carfuly you would notice Students and short term workers are welcome.

they can still think of themselves as Greek or whatever they are and yet respect the country they live in and become a member of it WITHOUT giving up their national identity.

Did i say they had to give up there national (a better word is historical) identity, NO! just to put it second to the contry you have chosen to live in.

I think of myself as completely Greek, am proud of it and have no shame of saying so.

But your NOT. You might be originaly from greace and keep the culture of greace but you have chosen not to be greek, To be completley greek you would have to be living in greace.

Is it more important to be greek than anything else? you should put beign greak second to respecting / following the culture of the contry you have chosen to live in.

Ex-RoNiN - (This isnt personal)

I c by this that you take no responcibility for either germany or greace(ie you dont VOTE). Since you dont vote y should i listen to what you say or respect any opinoin you have?

Ex-RoNiN · 29 May 2003 at 11:39

Originally posted by Shadez
But your NOT. You might be originaly from greace and keep the culture of greace but you have chosen not to be greek, To be completley greek you would have to be living in greace.

Is it more important to be greek than anything else? you should put beign greak second to respecting / following the culture of the contry you have chosen to live in.

Ex-RoNiN - (This isnt personal)

I c by this that you take no responcibility for either germany or greace(ie you dont VOTE). Since you dont vote y should i listen to what you say or respect any opinoin you have?

I'm not Greek because I don't live in Greece :confused:

Ahem

There are MANY reasons why someone is not living in their country of origin. Studying abroad, parents working abroad, career opportunities abroad, all of this does not make an expatriat less of a citizen than a citizen living in the actual country. As a matter of fact, I find that comment rather offending, I am sure other expatriats would find it offending as well. Do you want to tell Paras he is not properly British because he is living in Prague??

As for my culture, what do you mean by putting it 2nd to the one in the country I live in? Can you explain that a bit more?

Finally, WTF has voting got to do with validity of opinion :confused:

This is a public debate on a public forum, not a political campaign!

Toast · 29 May 2003 at 12:23

Shadez, I am english and have lived in england all my life.

If I decided to move to Cardiff would I have to call myself Welsh?

Is Roger Moore American, English or Scottish? He has homes in each country.

Bear · 29 May 2003 at 13:19

Shadez from what I can gather you have a very distorted sense of logic.

I was born in the country and I am as a result British. I love the country of my birth and always will but I am not always proud of being British.

When I lived in Holland for over a year, I respected the people in the country, I tried to learn the language and worked and paid my taxes. Why the hell should I become Dutch, what an absolute crock of ****.

If you live in a country for more than 3 years as you say, you still arent a citizen of that country. You are still an alien in that country until such time you chose to be naturalised, end of story, not the funny story you have cunjoured in your own mind of what citizenship means.

Also what has voting rights got to do with a public debate on a forum. Your distorted view on citizenship is no more valid that what Ex Ronin is posting just because you have a vote. :confused: