Thoughts on this - insight needed!

[Fry750]

Just a quick one but I'm interested in the opinions of everyone here as to how to approach this...

I'm sadly another redundancy due to Covid-19 and I specialise in marketing which is incredibly hard it seems. Anyway, as you can imagine I've been firing out CVs and covering letters with a somewhat okay acknowledgment rate.

Speaking to one company and they said they had to wade through over 60 decent candidates which means it's incredibly competitive. The likelihood that these people have greater experience is pretty strong which puts me at a huge disadvantage.

For those that come back and on more than one occasion the company says "it's great to hear from you etc, please answer these questions for us" and these questions are usually "how can we be better" or "write us a marketing plan", certainly along those lines.

The cynic in me would suggest they're after free consultancy and ideas without having to commit. Who wouldn't want free advice? No one, that's who.

Most recently I've been sent three questions by one company to answer, the next stage is a phone call and the third stage is an interview. Surely it should be the other way around...

Just FYI, I did recently put around 12 hours of effort and research into a report for hiring company. I asked for feedback and they promptly came back with "your effort was good but we've gone with someone else" which really irked me - are people this scummy?

So what should I do OcUK?

I think the options are:

A. Thanks but no thanks
B. I'd be more than happy to answer those questions in person, does 11am on Tuesday work for you?
C. Go back with an hourly charge
D. Do it anyway - no harm, no foul
E. Something else...

Either way I think the practice is pretty shocking. In all interviews and stuff I've had up until this joke of a year they've always been presentation based, nothing as emphatic as write us a marketing plan but maybe that comes with seniority and experience?

I want to believe they're interested in me and my skills etc but in reality they're probably collating all of their responses from desperate candidates to make into an actionable plan - that being said, if I'm wrong then I'm shooting myself in the foot.

TL;DR - companies keep asking for marketing advice as part of a vetting/hiring procedure, should one entertain this or tell them no thanks...?

 

[.Lethal]

I wouldn't do it. I'd politely reply with B but withdraw offering a date and leave that to them to follow up if they decide to take it further.

 

[Fusion]

At the moment and in the near future, employers are going to have the stronger hand. It’s better to jump through the hoops because if you don’t, those other 59 candidates might.

 

[RobHu]

Unfortunately you have no choice if you want the job. If you don't do whatever the task is they'll simply skip you. It's a similar situation in my field (software). I've been asked to do projects that would take 2+ days to complete. No thanks! Luckily the opportunity to candidate ratio is highly in favour of the candidate in that industry so avoiding those companies isn't a problem.

 

[HangTime]

For me it depends how badly you want the job, personally this sort of thing would appeal to me because it would give me an opportunity to demonstrate my prowess whilst also potentially scaring off other candidates. The higher the barrier to entry the better, helps to wheedle out the competition.
Obviously, if it's just one of many jobs you are applying for, maybe not worth it, but for a job you really want why not go for it.

 

[Fry750]

I've bitten the bullet anyway and sent it over.

To clarify, I'm expecting a thanks but no thanks response in a day or two.

Will keep you updated - but if it does go as I think it will, just puts a hugely sour taste in my mouth and makes organisations/hiring managers look like scum.

It's unbelievably competitive right now however the reason probation periods exist is to identify if you're a fit or not and to act accordingly. It shouldn't come down to an arbitrary task of "how can we make our business better" without any commitment from their side.

 

[Fusion]

They'll still have a probation period. This is just a filtering exercise.

 

[randomshenans]

They'll still have a probation period. This is just a filtering exercise.

Agreed. I don't see an issue with getting you to answer questions. It's hard to do all this remotely at the moment too, so doing as much up front is the logical thing to do.

 

[Fry750]

Questions are fine but when it's "how can we make our business better", with absolutely no commitment from them - it's not.

 

[Fusion]

Frankly, you sound disproportionately agitated by the process. Talking of a potential future employer as "scum" doesn't bode too well, either.

 

[Fry750]

Depends entirely on the motive and intent of the organisation. If it's genuine and well meaning, then of course there's no issue and it's all part of the fun.

If however there is no job and they're just looking for free consultancy, I'd say scum is pretty apt.

Time will tell...

 

[HangTime]

How good can any consultancy they get from this actually be though bearing in mind everyone is just supplying their stuff with no detailed brief, conversation, extra info about what they are looking to achieve etc? Surely they just end up with some generic stuff based on whatever candidates can glean from publicly accessible information and use it to assess the potential of the candidates rather than actually being something they'd want to use?

 

[Fry750]

If job is attracting XX number of applicants and they issue the same task to everyone, it could just be a numbers game. I.e. 80% have said we should do this or that.

It may even be an idea they've had and want to pursue but are looking at ways to execute it. The most suggested method wins perhaps...

 

[Slam62]

Oh my, they want an idea of what you might actually do should you work for them rather than some flowery rubbish on a presentation, sounds like a good company to me, just get on with it.

 

[randomshenans]

I think you're bat **** crazy to be honest. Asking you to suggest how to make the business better, as hangtime says, wouldn't be anywhere near enough to action, but more gives them an understanding of your thought process and experience. Yet you seem to have this BS that someone should just employ you as you're so valuable you couldn't possibly compete with other people.

 

[Martynt74]

How good can any consultancy they get from this actually be though bearing in mind everyone is just supplying their stuff with no detailed brief, conversation, extra info about what they are looking to achieve etc? Surely they just end up with some generic stuff based on whatever candidates can glean from publicly accessible information and use it to assess the potential of the candidates rather than actually being something they'd want to use?

Almost looks like perfect focus group style feedback though. Being cynical, if you get feedback from 50 people who work in Marketing to give their insight into your brand. Then you can collate all the info and have a great plan for what areas you actually need to work on.

 

[ik9000]

surely it's trying to see how you think and interpret a problem? They probably already have a good idea how and why they're doing things, maybe even have looked and/or appointed consultants to change things if they think it was necessary. I think they're wanting to see if you can spot the glaring rabbit hole, and/or come up with some good out-of-the-box blue-sky thinking while you're at it.

It's like me asking new starters for their thoughts on one of my designs. It's not because I don't already know the answer, but it helps me get an idea of what they can do. I literally had one person explain to me how the forces in something were right because the computer showed it that way. He failed to think about how that would mean gravity had gone into reverse. When I asked him what he thought about the outputs I was expecting him to say "there's something wrong" instead he tried to justify the outputs to me?!!

 

[Fry750]

In my experience and before Covid with the unbelievably competitive job market, no organisation has ever given me a task as the first thing (cognitive tests aside).

Sure I've had to do presentations for the final round but that's after discussions, them getting to know me and vice versa - so there are actual insights being learned and put to use.

In terms of demonstrating how one thinks, this is why we (applicants) put so much effort into covering letters, CVs and demonstrating examples of previous work - if that doesn't show how people think or their capabilities, then there's an issue.

Just feels a bit sordid and some might be trying to take advantage of the overwhelming responses to job applications they're getting...

 

[Vince]

I completed a project plan for the company i am working for now as part of the interview. Often these things are fairly leading and led me to asking certain questions about cash flow (including there ability to pay me) along with many other things.

I had the same reservations but actually this "project" put me in a very good position come the interview and not only allowed me to show my skills in terms of projects but also allowed me to dig into the deeper side of the business and show that im more than just IT and that in fact I had a good understanding of their business and how we could turn it around in terms of tech. I didnt allow them to keep the plan post interview mind.

I should also point out I ended up having 4 interview sessions with them including one that was a 6am start. If you want it and it is a great opportunity you should absolutley do it.

 

[ik9000]

If someone wanted me to do a 6am interview? Unless it's timezone related, it's probably not a place I'd want to work.