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Tower block fire - london

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by robfosters, 14 Jun 2017.

  1. KiNgPiN83

    Mobster

    Joined: 16 Nov 2003

    Posts: 4,584

    Obviously speculation on my part but with the apparent electrical surges and the cause maybe a fridge 'exploding', its probably not much of a stretch to link the too...

    Regardless there are going to be lots of questions raised by this, a huge inquiry and hopefully an improved standard in ALL rented accomodations. People shouldnt have to live in such conditions in this day and age especially in a developed country. Sad times. :(
     
  2. snips86x

    Capodecina

    Joined: 14 Nov 2012

    Posts: 17,731

    Location: Close to Swindon, but not Swindon

    ****

    How on earth can these people put money on a life...I really hope someone gets what's coming to them. Total ignorance!

    Now that is impressive!
     
  3. DB_SamX

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 17 Feb 2006

    Posts: 8,215

    Location: Winchester

    Listen to the chap (Graham) talking on BBC news right now. 11.40am onwards. Speaks a lot of sense and explains all possibilities.

    There are dozens of entities who work to make a building stand up/operate. My point is you cannot say who/what is to blame yet; it usually is a combination of things going wrong, and multiple parties at fault.
     
  4. adolf hamster

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Oct 2012

    Posts: 7,610

    it's certainly very damning of the management company, i mean daily electricity surges is ridiculous, in my entire life i can recall only one actual power surge and it sure as hell wasnt bad enough to blow up any electrical equipment.
     
  5. DavidMarq

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 2 Jul 2004

    Posts: 1,535

    Location: Stevenage

    CDM regs are blind with respect to the origin of pertinant information, that could have been taken into account at the design stage.
     
  6. antijoke

    Caporegime

    Joined: 28 Jan 2003

    Posts: 38,610

    Location: Stratford-Upon-Avon

    Have you read the blog from 2013? Residents were saying smoke was coming from lights and appliances...

    Apparently ministers sat on reports of how dangerous it was for years....

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/theresa-mays-chief-staff-sat-10620357
     
  7. LOAM

    Capodecina

    Joined: 20 Oct 2004

    Posts: 12,541

    Location: Nottingham

    Well the reason that there hasn't been more of them is because we have pretty robust Building Regulations in the UK to prevent just that happening. The level of detail you have to undertake which includes travel distances, compartmentation of occupancy, voids and ducts etc is very high. But for the most part it focuses on the internal aspect of the building whilst external regulations deals more with how you prevent it spreading to adjacent buildings. Its possible to design these things so that they can withstand prolonged exposure to flames and regs state that escape routes need to be vent-able.

    Its clearly not worked in this case though.
     
  8. adolf hamster

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Oct 2012

    Posts: 7,610

    yeah i read that blog, saying that stuff was smoking and a guy was saying it blew up his computer monitor. absolutely ridiculous.
     
  9. StriderX

    Caporegime

    Joined: 18 Mar 2008

    Posts: 27,040

    Wow, Theresa May at fault again?

    Jesus, she really can't run things at all.
     
  10. snips86x

    Capodecina

    Joined: 14 Nov 2012

    Posts: 17,731

    Location: Close to Swindon, but not Swindon

    Does make you wonder eh...
     
  11. LOAM

    Capodecina

    Joined: 20 Oct 2004

    Posts: 12,541

    Location: Nottingham

    but would it have been deemed reasonable to have explored the construction methods and standards of other incidents in other countries, at design stage? I would say unlikely if the product manufacturer information and the regulations of the country you are working in say its acceptable.

    Revisions in red
     
    Last edited: 14 Jun 2017
  12. TheOracle

    Capodecina

    Joined: 30 Sep 2005

    Posts: 13,058

    Thank god for the greenfell action group, at least a lot of the issues have been recorded.
    Getting tired of idiots in high places to be honest
     
  13. DavidMarq

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 2 Jul 2004

    Posts: 1,535

    Location: Stevenage

    Thats not a question for me but could be a question for the courts to decide. ;)
     
  14. LOAM

    Capodecina

    Joined: 20 Oct 2004

    Posts: 12,541

    Location: Nottingham

    What is your background? I'm working with CDM daily from a designers perspective. The point being it would be unreasonable to be expected to take into account something that you have no way of establishing if you are comparing like for like. For example just focusing on one tiny aspect of the material choice, what are the fixing standards of the UE with regards external cladding systems? If they aren't exactly the same as the UK then the entire comparison is worthless.

    The fact is that in the UK when this sort of thing happens, regulations are revised accordingly. But it obviously takes time.
     
  15. scorza

    Caporegime

    Joined: 22 Jun 2004

    Posts: 26,685

    Location: Deep England

    Before we start assigning the blame, shouldn't we wait for the full facts to emerge? E.g. was the building compliant with the regulations?
     
  16. Josh

    Capodecina

    Joined: 23 Oct 2013

    Posts: 10,309

    Location: Surrey

    Listening to first hand accounts on LBC is tough - sounds utterly horrific, our emergency services really do a fantastic job.

    Hearing about people still being alive is nothing short of a miracle looking at the photos.
     
  17. TheOracle

    Capodecina

    Joined: 30 Sep 2005

    Posts: 13,058

    That's not the GD way
     
  18. StriderX

    Caporegime

    Joined: 18 Mar 2008

    Posts: 27,040

    But if the government already had such regulations being talked about due to complaints in this specific building (then summarily ignored for years, probably costed too much), then that's criminal negligence surely?

    Hopefully Barwell gets tossed into a jail cell.
     
  19. LOAM

    Capodecina

    Joined: 20 Oct 2004

    Posts: 12,541

    Location: Nottingham

    Who knows, but it wouldn't effect your responsibility under CDM because its unreleased information.
     
  20. DavidMarq

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 2 Jul 2004

    Posts: 1,535

    Location: Stevenage

    I deal with CDM as a manager on large construction projects.

    What you have to keep in mind with the CDM regs is that they were designed with the view to allow for successful procecutions of those higher up the food chain. The scope is almost without limit if you can be shown to have the blame token. Also as they are prosecuted by the HSE in many cases it is on the basis that you are guilty unless proven innocent. "Foreseeable risk" for example is such a catch all that defending against it could be very difficult.

    I am very weary of the power of CDM.