1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Trading the stockmarket (NO Referrals)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by mcast123, 2 Apr 2009.

  1. englishpremier

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 15 Feb 2003

    Posts: 8,139

    Location: Europe

    You would of been ok It's down again. Proper yo-yo stock.

    Automotive sales are going to be poor this overall. Whilst Tesla might beat the trend slightly. I think I'm out.
     
  2. Skeptic

    Mobster

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 4,153

    Location: UK

    A company of its (alleged) size and market cap should not be this volatile. Big ships should turn slowly. Maybe I'm just bitter I didn't get in? Maybe it'll end in tears.
     
  3. Journey

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 9,589

    Location: West Midlands

    Except when they get hit by a Tsunami from the side right? Which is what happens when a pandemic is on-going and the major base of operations and manufacturing announces they are going to put more restrictions in place.

    Why would you get in something you think is going to fail?

    Certainly will, but not for Tesla.
     
  4. Skeptic

    Mobster

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 4,153

    Location: UK

    Oh, on that we are agreed. TSLA will be fine - either in its current state or some other configuration. Its shareholders, however...

    Look: I understand the bull case. Yet, the level of sheer greed, observable daily, is astonishing, and whenever that happens, history suggests (for the most part) that it's only a matter of time before things become unstuck.

    TSLA might be the next AAPL. It really might. If you've doubled your money (or more) then congratulations. I sincerely and honestly mean that - any profit and market success is recognised by us fellow investors.

    Remember: much of America got stimulus cheques, and - with the accessibility of the markets these days - the ability to invest at will. Being able to buy fractional shares has helped.

    Might it be worth considering that there is a herd attitude going on here? That TSLA is this high 'just because' and that actually its risk/reward ratio is skewed?

    I suppose it also depends on the size of your investment pot, and newer people to the game probably have little to lose in these gambles. No disrespect to anybody about that, but one's risk/reward ratio develops over the life course and maybe were I in a position to risk it big, I'd do the same.
     
  5. 413x

    Capodecina

    Joined: 13 Jan 2010

    Posts: 22,059

    Location: Llaneirwg

    What. Tesla doing badly today. Single digit gains!
     
  6. silversurfer

    Capodecina

    Joined: 13 Jul 2004

    Posts: 19,236

    Location: Stanley Hotel, Colorado

    Ultimately its society which benefits or does not, they decide but theres alot of distortion in TSLA because its receiving many millions from providing so many zero emission cars they are paid to perform that service apparently. AAPL really was disliked as a stock for years and was great to trade and I was stupid to sell as it became part of sp500, now its held by the swiss central bank as a core asset in place of the bonkers QE programs of ECB and FED debt, in context all prices could be fake but not as distorted as treasury debt. 17.3m of AAPL apparently
    Norway's wealth fund to the tune of 70k per capita is another one to watch as they hedged oil they did the right thing but where do they place it now, Japan holds 1tn of US debt yet its central bank has 30 years of QE. All central banks are net buyers of gold over a decade so thats the simple thing to hold overall imo. vs the idea of shorting maybe doesnt work anymore, you sell the stock to hold dollar which is a less valid asset then owning a productive company really so you need to be a trading professional to walk that tightrope and watch that daily.
     
  7. relicalpha

    Associate

    Joined: 2 Feb 2020

    Posts: 87

    Location: UK

    thanks, so as I already have an isa that doesn’t support US stocks that I’m using for this tax year, is Trading213 a good choice with their non-isa investment accounts? Are they stable enough for long term holds or would you advise other options for buying US stocks?
     
  8. HACO

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 6 Oct 2009

    Posts: 2,186

    They're fine. The underlying asset is yours anyway, even if the platform itself goes bust.
     
  9. HACO

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 6 Oct 2009

    Posts: 2,186

    I think people expect Tesla to do to the car market what Apple did to the smartphone market. That's why they keep buying no matter the price. I was (and still am) one of those people. There's also an element of investors seeing Tesla as more of a diverse tech stock (like Apple, Google or Samsung) than simply a high-tech car manufacturer, there is some truth here with their battery technology.

    However there's has to be a ceiling where all those benefits are basically "priced in". Tesla is now approaching a $300 billion market cap. 1.5x the size of the runner up (Toyota) and more than 3x the next one (VW).

    Combined market cap of all major non-Tesla car manufacturers across the world is about $600 billion. I'm not drawing any conclusions from this, only that to me it seems like any hope of a Tesla-dominated future in the car market is already priced in.

    I bought at $300 and haven't sold yet. But am now thinking of taking my gains look for another chance to come back.
     
  10. Chris1712

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 29 Jul 2004

    Posts: 9,363

    Location: Somerset

    The writing is on the wall for the cars IMO, and I agree most of that is now 'in'. I think by 2030 they will have a large chunk of the car market which will account for the current market cap.

    BUT for me, they're not a car company. They're a clean energy company with a software tilt - THIS is where the huge potential is. Go and add up the market caps of all the top energy companies (inc Oil & Gas) then add a dollop of super high margin software & technology licensing on top to all the legacy car companies that want to stay alive AND the revenue potential of Tesla Fleet and boom that's a big company.

    I've been in since early 2016, over a few months they showed the Model 3 + Master Plan part 2 + Nvidia PX2 and it was just obvious to me - this is huge.
     
  11. Skeptic

    Mobster

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 4,153

    Location: UK

    Sold out of AAZ for +2.5K, which was then dutifully deployed into CAML. No other trades this week.
     
  12. FMF

    Gangster

    Joined: 8 Jul 2008

    Posts: 226

    Anyone invested in the airlines since the pandemic? Easyjet looks cheap compared to rivals.
     
  13. HACO

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 6 Oct 2009

    Posts: 2,186

    I bought EZJ at about 500 but sold at above 800 back in June. I think it will a tough couple of years for airlines, I'd rather stay away until they get into their deep troubles and prices drop further.
     
  14. 413x

    Capodecina

    Joined: 13 Jan 2010

    Posts: 22,059

    Location: Llaneirwg

    Think that's sensible. Might be a few fall and a few take up the slack. Or it might not get back to past for years.

    I'm fairly pleased with my aviva shares. I put everything I had into aviva because I thought they looked oversold and seemed robust.

    And the amazing dividend.
    I belive I got in at over 10 percent yield if they don't cut.
    Went in 3 times which averaged at 230 (295 at time of post)

    Not too bad.
     
  15. silversurfer

    Capodecina

    Joined: 13 Jul 2004

    Posts: 19,236

    Location: Stanley Hotel, Colorado

    Pandemic isnt over until widespread vaccine and they can say if it mutates or not, so thats next year. So airlines have over capacity till then alongside quite few similar boom type industries that nothing can reinflate. Gamble on easyjet is probably less of bargain then some other choice, like RR is going to be safer then the end users I think. That did go 240 to 420 and back down again to 270 now.

    Ive sold out AAZ previous, its come a long way but at present Im accumulating it probably this whole year. Its been a fair buy and the whole sector pretty much since april '19. I think the risk reward makes it fair to hold even without knowing if its already peaked for this year.

    TSLA is full, its obviously gained from speculation. Its hard to argue against any gamble type proposition, it will put in some peak pattern as a warning somebody notices then it will finally top out I just dont see taking a risk if -20% or similar is possible. Always leave profits for the next trade, next buyer is good advice.
     
  16. Tefal

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: 30 Jun 2007

    Posts: 66,594

    Location: Wales


    I went with Boeing Airbus Raytheon and rolls Royce

    Safran is partnered with Ge for cfm engines which are going on the Boeing maxes and the Airbus NEos for ahirt range so good solid future.

    Raytheon covers pratt and whitney too, so RR, Raytheon and safran gives good explore to the engine sector

    Rolls Royce has some exclusives like the 350 but that may change. I mostly went because they're down so much it was a bit of a gamble really.

    I'm aiming to cash out on most of these in approx 4-5 years

    I've mostly invested individually for things down with the virus but got in in April with an isa so missed the March dip.

    Am I right in thinking it's best to wait to invest in some bonds for the recovery to be complete for safety next time or is it really not worth it?


    Anyone using trade 212 I've entered the autoinvest/pies beta so I would like to set up some more etf style stuff for long term rather than just cashing in on Corona. Atm only etf I use is a Nasdaq qqq one to capture tech stuff as I am too hands off to follow things in the fast tech world.
     
    Last edited: 16 Jul 2020
  17. Tefal

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: 30 Jun 2007

    Posts: 66,594

    Location: Wales

    Edit dp so pic


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  18. englishpremier

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 15 Feb 2003

    Posts: 8,139

    Location: Europe

    Yep down 18% and 31% on two small (in monetary terms) airline investments.

    Tefal, you must got in at the very lowest on Delta. I'm down nearly 20% on that one.

    Also curious, what has got you into Airbus?
     
    Last edited: 16 Jul 2020
  19. inferno

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 23 May 2004

    Posts: 1,961

    Talking of airlines, I used to until recently work for one! I'm going to YOLO my goodbye money on VOO and QQQ, doubt i will be working for a while....
     
  20. Efour

    Caporegime

    Joined: 8 Sep 2005

    Posts: 26,653

    Location: Norrbotten, Sweden.

    I've sold all my investments/gambles.
    I complete on my house in 1 month and this has allowed me to pay off over half of it and furnish it.
    I've started to read in the media the bubble is bursting, correction is coming.
    This is a self fulfilling prophecy from my woeful experience.
    I'll be back to play more stockmarket roulette in a few months.