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Tropical Tank Woes

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by lukechad, 18 Sep 2009.

  1. lukechad

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 25 May 2004

    Posts: 8,925

    Location: Burton-On-Trent

    After racking the brains of some of the fish keepers on the forum really.

    Today I woke up and spotted that the 2 clown loach I have had in my community take for 3 weeks or so have developed a fairly severe case of white spot.

    So, got hold of some treatment for this and lunchtime today I have got a treatment in the tank.

    I have looked on google at seems turning the tank up a degree or 2 will speed up the lifecycle of the parasite thats infected my fish, then the treatment will work when the parasites are at the "free swimming" stage.

    On the bottle it says to re-treat in 4 days, then a further 4 days and the treatment should be complete? What I dont want to do it stop the treatment and the free swimming parasites lock onto my fish again and start the process again, is it advised to keep the treatment going a bit longer to make sure a re-occurance is less likely?

    What about ornaments and plants? Will these need removing and cleaning to remove any infectious particles?

    This evening I came back from work and having not seen my pleco for a couple of days decided to hunt for him, alas, he was dead, and looked like he had been for a day or so. He didnt have white spot on him but is it possible that the early stages of the infection may have been eaten by the pleco as they are eating off rocks/plants and ornaments all day. Infecting the plec internally?

    The rest of my fish all have a low number of spots on them which I hope wont be a major issue with treatments already being underway. If in the worst case scenario I lose every fish in there, will I have to completely remove all the water and basically start from fresh?

    The whole tank has been setup for about 14 weeks, it was left for 3 before the first fish were introduced then slowly added more over the past 11 weeks or so. The clown loach being one of the more recent arrivals.

    Just after ideas, tips and things to be aware of from other tropical fish keepers who may have been in the same situation as myself.

    Any help is much appreciated! Probably the best part of £60 of fish in the tank that I would really not want to lose!
     
  2. SoSolid

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 28 Jul 2003

    Posts: 1,987

    Location: The Moon

    Clown loach are vulnerable to ich.
     
  3. john_s

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 25 Jun 2009

    Posts: 1,239

    Location: Guernsey

    Is it white spot? ISTR reading something that clown loaches are susceptible to something that looks like white spot, but isn't. Might even have seen it on the box of white spot treatment stuff.
     
  4. lukechad

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 25 May 2004

    Posts: 8,925

    Location: Burton-On-Trent

    Yeh ich, its the same thing as white spot.

    I knew they were very prone to it, but they all looked fine right up until this morning.
     
  5. Uncle Gord

    Gangster

    Joined: 16 May 2004

    Posts: 111

    Location: Cheltenham

    Sorry to hear about the plec.. dunno about about the internal infection thing, but plec's are pretty sturdy normally, but it sounds like you're doing all of the right things though. Be sure to remove any carbon filters if you've got any and don't worry about the plants, finish the course of treatment and do a 50% water change afterwards; try to get some reverse osmosis water from an aquarium if you can.

    Unfortunately clown loaches are quite susceptible to disease as they're easily stressed (tank introduction, environmental and changes etc.. can happily hold their own with other fish though) and don't really have scales but despite that they are pretty resiliant, particularily when they're young. Because of the scales thing, I presume you know to reduce the amount of white spot treatment you're adding??

    At 14 weeks the tanks still bedding in; may even have been a bit to early to introduce clown loaches if I'm being honest but I should think they'll be fine if you carry on as you are.
     
  6. lukechad

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 25 May 2004

    Posts: 8,925

    Location: Burton-On-Trent

    Cheers for the reply mate.

    Yeah I got some carbonless filter material too as I know thats supposed to be removed.

    The water went a very vivid blue when I first did the treatment (on my lunch break), but when I came home from work this evening it was back to normal colour, is this ok?

    As for dosage, I did put less in than was indicated on the bottle as I know the clown's require less dosage, also ive heard of tetra being overwhelmed by the treatments and being killed so this was another reason not to put in as much as was required.

    I assume as long as the fish still have an apetite that normal feeding amounts can continue?

    The guys at the auqatics place I got most of my stuff from know how long I had the tank but still sold me the clowns (which arent cheap either). I'm not blaming them but perhaps they should have known how delicate these fish are.

    Am I right in thinking that in 4 days time to give the same dosage of treatment again and leave for a further 4 days, then do a water change? Also will the infection live on the gravel sucker I use for example or do they require water to live?
     
  7. Uncle Gord

    Gangster

    Joined: 16 May 2004

    Posts: 111

    Location: Cheltenham

    Yeah keep feeding them as you have been, try to change as little as possible, and the the water colour thing is to be expected; it clears after an hour or so.

    To be fair to the shop folks 14 weeks is way longer than the usual 4-6 weeks bedding in for the nitrogen cycle etc.., it's really just my opinion that fish like clown loaches are better introduced into a slightly more established tank because they're so easily stressed.

    With the treatment stuff, I guess it depends what you're using. I ran off to get my bottle of WS3 to check the treatment plan and it's different to what you're suggesting..

    Repeat dosage after 48 hour intervals while symptoms persist then a dose 48 hours after that.. 10% water change after every 5 doses


    I've only had to use it twice in 5 years and it took about a week both times to clear.

    Don't worry about ich surviving on other things like gravel cleaners, plants etc.. There's a theory that it's actually always present in a tank, although I don't know how true that is; I've had it twice and both times it appeared not long after I introduced new fish, so I put it down to the water they came from the shop in.
     
  8. vintage-x

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 7 May 2004

    Posts: 1,954

    Sorry to hear that dude.
    Some of the first inhabitants of my large tank were clown loachs which died due to ich :-(
     
  9. lukechad

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 25 May 2004

    Posts: 8,925

    Location: Burton-On-Trent

    Woke up this morning to a dead clown loach and another looking like its on its last legs!

    If the other dies and i remove it from the tank I think that maybe the rest will cope well with the treatment.

    All treatments are different, like anything, one person tell you such and such is the best, another totally disagrees.

    I will just follow the instructions on the bottle I have and keep my fingers crossed now :)

    The water, up until a week ago was crystal clear, then early in the week it started to cloud and look a bit mirky! Whats the trick to it as the tanks in the shops have plenty of algae on rocks and ornaments but the water is crystal clear? :/
     
  10. frosty03

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 14 Jul 2004

    Posts: 1,778

    Location: England

    have you tested the water?

    cloudy water is not good (obviously) and your water quality may be quite poor.

    Most fishie shops will test the water for you, bring in a sample (or phone b4)....
     
  11. lukechad

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 25 May 2004

    Posts: 8,925

    Location: Burton-On-Trent

    I have a 6 in 1 test kit and I am doing that regularly, all the levels seem fine.

    Its not cloudy as it was when i first set it up and it was going through the nitrogen cycle, its more a dirty colour, not really dirty, just a bit less clear than it was this time last week!
     
  12. robmol

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 31 Jan 2009

    Posts: 2,311

    My clown loach looked like they had it once, before i could get some treatment for it, woke up the next day and it had dissappeared on its own
     
  13. lukechad

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 25 May 2004

    Posts: 8,925

    Location: Burton-On-Trent

    That do tropical tank keepers on here suggest?

    10-15% water change weekly, or 25-30% fortnightly?
     
  14. McManicMan

    Soldato

    Joined: 21 Oct 2002

    Posts: 6,220

    you do know clown loach's should be treated with half a dosage due to them being fish with skin rather than scales
     
  15. SoSolid

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 28 Jul 2003

    Posts: 1,987

    Location: The Moon

    I change 20% fortnightly.
     
  16. Abyss

    Mobster

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 4,419

    Location: Nottingham

    I go for 20% every 2-3 weeks.

    Sorry to hear about the clown loach. I had the same problem in my old tank when it was fairly new, however I got away with it by turning the temperature up to 28 degrees, turning up the air bubbler (to try and keep some oxygen in the water which will be lost due to the increase in temperature), and treating the tank with Protozin (generally viewed as the best white spot treatment and something I now always keep in the cupboard).
     
  17. Uncle Gord

    Gangster

    Joined: 16 May 2004

    Posts: 111

    Location: Cheltenham

    :(

    Sorry to hear that mate.. Are these loaches quite young?

    You never know, if you speak nicely to the folks in the shop you bought them from they could maybe do something for you; it doesn't sound like you had them for very long at all. Take some water in for them to test, take in your receipt and they might very well give you some more; hopefully you won't need to politely remind them about the money you have and maybe will spend with them in future.

    When did you add the loaches, and have you added anything else since?
     
  18. wordy

    Soldato

    Joined: 30 Nov 2005

    Posts: 6,869

    Location: Rotherham.

    What are your water test result?

    Hope your other CLown Loach gets better, I had a problem with Guppies, everytime I used to get them they would contract fin rot and die even when treatement was added, I do 40% - 50% water changes per week and have a 600 lph canister on a 110L tank. I'm on the 3rd try now, got them from a different reatailer and they seem to be doing fine this time, fingers crossed.
     
    Last edited: 19 Sep 2009
  19. lukechad

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 25 May 2004

    Posts: 8,925

    Location: Burton-On-Trent

    50% a week seems alot higher than people suggest mate!

    The loaches were young yes, all that was added after them was 2 female siamese fighters, 1 has white spot.

    Tomorrow is the 2nd dose of treatment, im keeping a close eye on any that have started to scratch or not eat any food, and touch wood they all seem ok.

    Just one of them learning curves I think!
     
  20. Admiral Huddy

    Caporegime

    Joined: 17 Feb 2003

    Posts: 29,565

    Location: Chelmsford & Broadgate

    I change 50% weekly if I can, vacumming the bottom and adding salts too. Do you use salts? What size is your tank?

    Is there anyway you can isolate them? Clown loaches are lovey fish fish - shame :(

    I've only been fishkeeping for about 7 months but I've learnt hell of a lot but it's been at the cost of a mass loss which I learnt from.

    Here's the place to go .. Membesr here have helped me big time.



    http://www.tropicalfish.site5.com/tfc/index.php
     
    Last edited: 21 Sep 2009