Under what circumstances should your son/daughter start contributing?

[Aldav]

Where did I say that?

Inference, as I said.

 

[Aldav]

That is because you aren't well off though. People that do have money, the children end up having things that many less well off families won't and as a result may end up having higher expectations. Making them contribute teaches them the value of money and that life isn't going to be a free ride for them.

Exactly. I don't come from a silver-spoon background, and I remember full well striving and saving for my first car. Having had to work, and wait,for it made me value it far more than having Daddy buy me a new BMW for my 18th birthday.

My father lent me the deposit for my first car, but it was a loan. And how I loved that 8-year old clunker. But the deposit loan was exactly that, a loan, mainly because he couldn't really afford to just give it to me. Subsequent cars I paid for myself, but when I bought my first house, again, Dad lent me funds for the deposit. The result was a mortgage of about 60% of the purchase price, and a far lower mortgage rate than a 95% mortgage loan would have been. I had about 15% of the purchase price for the deposit, he lent me about 25% and I paid him back as I could, helped by getting a lower mortgage rate. In effect, that lower rate helped me pay him back and I'd rather pay him than the bank. That was his idea. Nobody's fool, my dear old dad.

Anyway, having had to work and strive for things always made me value them more than things that came too easy, and rent is about teaching my kids that same lesson.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

I suppose you could say I was spoilt.
When I was 16 (in 1974) my Mum & Dad buggered off to Nigeria leaving me to fend for myself in their bungalow. I never paid a bill and they sent money back for my food etc. When I was 17 they bought me a Mini Clubman Estate but it was obviously out of guilt for leaving me.
I had to grow up very fast and when they came back in 1979 I went and bought my own house. I may have been spoilt but I still knew the value of money.

 

[Bear]

I suppose you could say I was spoilt.
When I was 16 (in 1974) my Mum & Dad buggered off to Nigeria leaving me to fend for myself in their bungalow. I never paid a bill and they sent money back for my food etc. When I was 17 they bought me a Mini Clubman Estate but it was obviously out of guilt for leaving me.
I had to grow up very fast and when they came back in 1979 I went and bought my own house. I may have been spoilt but I still knew the value of money.

Completely different and pretty much irrelevant. You knew the value of money because you had to look after yourself, that is completely different to living at home and everything being handed on a plate for you and contributing nothing.

 

[snowdog]

Much of the attitude expressed in that reflects exactly why I insisted my kids contributed, both financially and in doing things round the house.

But let me be clear about one thing. Requiring a contribution is nothing whatever to do with not being able to afford kids. It's about several things, but not that.

The primary purpose is to get them used to the fact that, as adults, living costs money. It is also about ridding them of the notion that they can simply assume the Bank of Mum and Dad is going to underwrite their lifestyle, whatever they choose to fo, and that my HOME is a hotel for them.

I'd want my kids to have as much fun as they can while they're young. There is enough time for responsible boring life when they're older. I'm only 25 myself and regret not going out more when I was younger, doing more stuff, and living life more. Now I'm 25 I can't as I'd be crap at my work after a night out (at 17/18 I could go out and hammered every day and not have any problems functioning at work or uni, these days I need half a day in bed after a night's sleep to recover.

So they contributed nothing, financially, until they'd finished full-time education, and were earning. An education which, by the way, we oaid for, was at very considerable cost,

Different situation, when I started Uni (at 18) I've already been working and my parents never paid a penny for my education. In the NL it was easier, pretty much all of it was government paid.

through school and both under-grad and post-graduate levels at university. We made sure that money worries were not a distraction, that all living and university costs were met without resorting to loans, and that trying to study while working to afford to study wasn't necessary. So, they studied full-time and didn't need to work to do so.

What is wrong with that though, I do have a student debt, but I've concluded that living well at that age is worth it compared to many living like hobo's. While 100-150 euros per month to pay back student loan after Uni is barely a dent in my income. I still have half a year to go till I have my degree, but already have a good paying job in IT, a car from work, and I (atm) save up 1k per month for when I move out (have a few k's in the bank (obviously my stuedent debt is much larger). I'm just waiting till my dad can manage himself financially and I'm renting my place or buying a house, with my current income (which will only increase) I could get a mortgage of 130k, more than enough to buy my first place.

However, we also made clear that while we'd pay for studies that were leading somewhere, and do so happily, there were two limitations. One was it must be leading somewhere; we weren't interested in funding a permanent student lifestyle as a way of avoiding getting a job. Secondly, results matter. Fail to produce them and the money fliw would dry up. Why? Because my wife and I are both geaduates, remember the temptations of uni life and aren't paying for an education to fund a three, four or five year non-stop party,

Understandable.

Our kids had the best start we could give them, including education, but we're not about to turn them into spoilt brats that thunk the world owes them a luxury lifestyle, and that it'll be presented gift-wrapped.

I was a spoilt brat, but never made use of it, instead until 17 I was a loner who sat at home all day. After that I started going out more, I worked a lot, had two cars one moment. Then my parents got divorced, I continued my expensive lifestyle (had 2 cars for a while, and my dad also 2, so 4 cars for 2 ppl, went out pretty much every other day, ordered food every day, etc...), until after 1 or 2 years were were almost being evicted. For 1-2 years after that I helped my dad get back on his feet from the financial mess, I've sold my car, went back to staying home more, cooking my own food, etc...

Now back with a stable financial situation of my own, and with my dad nearly being out of financial trouble, I can resort back to doing whatever the hell I want, except I'm now to old to function well at work if I live like I used to...

But the notion of us charging them 'rent' because we couldn't afford kids? That's funny. Truly hilarious, in fact. At one point, we were paying about $150k a year in school fees alone. And glad to do it.

Different situation. 150k in school fees? Dear god, what backwards country is that? Discouraging education is the worst you can do.

There was also the time my second-eldest buy decided that paying rent at home was somehow unfair, and that he wanted his "independence", by which he meant he didn't want to pull hus weight in the home. So he decided to move out.

To give him credit, or at least as a testament to either his stupifity or stubborness, he lasted almost three months before he moved back in, somewhat humbled, having discovered the hard way just exactly what the "rent" he was paying at home bought him out in the big wide world.

His siblings took careful note too, and never tried that stunt.

I'd actually encourage them to make these types of mistakes, best teacher is your own experience.

It won't happen to me though, there were already times I paid the whole rent for my dad, I've paid of debt collectors, and paid off expensive random repairs and bills. Not because he asked me to, but because my parents gave me everything I wanted when I was a kid, and I don't want him to lose everything.

Much the same logic applies to doing chores about the house, and most definitely not just cleaning up after themselves. My home is a home for all of us, and while you, or indeed a couple of my kids might be vontent with varying degrees of "squalor", my wife and myself definitely are noy. Our home is not either a doss house or a hotel, and our kids aren't treating it as such. And the kids, once working adults, are family members, not visiting guests. That comes with responsibilities as well as benefits. As young children, obviously, they get a feee pass but as they grew up, they'd get age-appropriate jobs to do. My eldest, as a teenager, objected to washing the car from time to time. Okay, that's fine with me. But I don't put my cars in machine car-washes so if he's not prepared to do as I do and wash it, presumably he's not planning on borrowing it either? Of course, as soon as he buys his own car, he's very welcome to not wash it. Unsurprisingly, his boycott on car washing didn't last long, and when he did buy his own (with financial help from us, I might add) he discovered he had some pride in it and almost washed the damn paint off it for the first few months.

Funnily I had the same situation recently, me and my dad shared cars, it went well for quite along while, but he tried using me more and more for stuff, every time I fuelled up he would use up my fuel, also he demanded to help him every time with working on the car, or well ''working'' often nothing would get fixed.

At one time I invested more time every week on the car than when I had my own cars. So basically told him to stick his cars up his *** and fixed myself a brand new car from my boss at work .

Every penny of "rent" our kids paid was invested for them, ready for when they stepped onto the property ladder. And, every pound they contributed, we matched, so they had a 100% ROI before it even started. Any loans, like for cars, were expected to be repaid, in full, and barring unexpected events, on time. But were interest-free.

And of course, we'd be there as a safety net if anything went wrong. We were also somewhat more relaxed investors whrn a couple of them started their own businesses but it was an investment, on a business basis, and they had to convince us of the business case as they would any other investor.

We're comfortably off, and the point of charging "rent" was to give our kids every advantage in life we could, but without giving them the impression they could just play at life. We would give them every help we could, but they still had to work hard to succeed. Like everybody does. The "rent" was always set at a reasonable but realistic level, and that's realistic in the context of being under what it would cost them on the open market, but not a trivial sum that was unrepresentative of the real world.

The rent was a tool to help educate them. For us. But others may have different circumstances and objectives. For instance, a one-parent home run by someone on minimum wage and benefits is a different proposition, and if a household "child" is an adult, working full-time and earning well, I can't think of any reason they shouldn't pay their way.

Fair enough, but I simply felt like I have lost 2-3 years of my life because of the mess my parents made, 2-3 years in the best years age wise. I did bad at uni because I didn't feel free to do what I want (partially an excuse, partially because I had to work a lot to financially fix the mess my parents made). As a result I want my potential children to never experience this type of rubbish and have the time of their life until 25.... I learned the hard way that you can trust nobody but yourself, even with people that have the best intentions for you, they can screw up.

Sorry to focus on this, I cut out most of the drivel as well. But you go from saying if you can't afford kids don't have them to when they turn 18 as long as they are self funding I will be happy? Eh? Ok, 18 the yare technically an adult, but seriously?

Also your attitude towards your future kids is boggling. 'They can live for free as long as he doesn't cost me (mainly) time and extra money'. Even 18+ they will still need time and money I am afraid. Also 'live however the hell he wants as long as he doesn't bother me', WUT?!? Just live in your own bubbles?

Like above, I learned I can only trust myself. I've always held 2 jobs the recent years because even the people who want the best for you screw up, let alone boss figures who are not family. I'm fine with living in my own bubble because that way nobody can **** things up for you.

Perhaps is just the way you word things.

I paid rent since I started working part time whilst at college. 20% of my take home. Stayed that way till I moved out. Parents didn't need it. Not in the slightest. More out of principle and to ready myself for the big wide world. From starting work to moving out my rent (then plus savings) went from around £200 a month to around £1500. When I was ready to move out I was use to seeing all that money leave my account, so having a mortgage to pay, bills, food, etc .wasn't a culture shock.

I thank them dearly for it.

(some of the keep was saved, and it helped furnish my house )

I am annoyed at the financial mess my parents left when they broke up, and I feel I lost at least a year or two of my life fixing the rubbish. Because of this, I want my kids to also learn to fend for themselves, but also have a worry free life until at least the age I am atm. I want the most of their worry to be some stupid nonsense with a girl or a bad hangover, not figuring out what bills can be left/cashed back to pay bills that are essential or working 60 hrs per week (wasn't long, but for a few weeks I did, including night shifts, I was a slave to the wage literally, lost a lot of weight and also was ill quite a lot, depressed badly, took me about a year to recover from that time).


I want my children to be self-dependant, make their own mistakes, and at the same time be worry free until at least 25 ish. I don't feel doing chores in the house or demanding rent helps any of that. (though I will kick their ass if they don't do well education wise or don't feel motivation to work for their own advantage, and like I said, they need to be morally correct, eg. not do things to others they wouldn't like done to them and respect others people and their work/effort). I live by: If you want something, do it yourself. That applies to everything imo, from chores to work, until 18 I'm responsible after that they can live rent free, but they can sod off with everything else, so make your own damn food and washing etc...

 

[coolsurfer]

And you, too, are missing the point.

One point is that there is no right, or wrong, way. That you did it one way and your kids turned out fine doesn't mean they'll be a wreck if it's done a different way. Mine turned out fine as well, and are well-adjusted, successful people with families of their own.

The second point is that quite a few posters have suggested that "charging rent" is about needing money from the kids to make do. For some people on very low incomes that may be true. And if such parents are struggling to make ends meet, and grown kids are working full-time and earning, why on earth shouldn't they contribute?

But that's not the only reason for charging rent. And the notion that kids are somehow a money-generating project is just utterly hilarious. I've lived in a number of countries over the years but for most of it was US-based. If you had any notion of the cost of putting four kids through university, especially if you want top-end uni's, and most certainly when two of them trained as doctors, you'd know just how daft the notion of them somehow being hard done by to pay rent once working full-time was. The fact is, they didn't stay home long because jobs took them elsewhere fairly quickly in all but one case. If I was keeping a ledger on the costs of and revenue from raising kids, even as professionals earning pretty well, they'd be paying off that imbalance for years. Uni and especially med school is eye-wateringly expensive. But I'm not, and that's not what rent was about.

And as for having some money, I wondered if someone would jump on that. Yes, I'm not hard up. Not super wealthy either, but then, that's a subjective judgement too. But there always seem to be a few that don't like the notion that others have more money. I'm not sure what motivates the bitchiness. Maybe it's envy, Maybe it's plain old resentment. I don't know, and don't much care. I've run a fairly successful business for 40 years, and my wife is a successful professional. So we've done well. We haven't splurged it all on sxtravagant consumerism or fancy toys, and I'm not in here boasting about cars, watches or any of the other stuff so regularly boasted about, but we have managed to provide a good comfortable home for our kids, and beyond that, priority number one was getting them the best start we could, which happened to involve the best education we could afford, which happened to be extremely expensive.

We're well off enough to be able to give the kids that education, and I wish every else was too. But that's not how the world is. I'd also point out that I've met people that could, and indeed did, blow the kind of money that financed the education for all our kids on a shopping trip to a jewellers or a weekend in a casino.

But if anyone thinks I'm going to be embarrassed about us having worked hard and been successful enough to give our kids the best education we could, they're going to be sadly disappointed. I'm proud of having been able to give our kids the kind of head start we didn't get.

Which bring me to the final point. Charging them rent meant money "changed hands" strictly temporarily. It was, if you like, a mandatory savings scheme, but the object lesson was that living costs. Not that I told them that, as it would have defeated the point of the exercise.

Have you considered this? You saidExactly. I'm not. So my kids have always been used to being around an affluent lifestyle where money isn't really a problem but they've never been the ones providing the money. The point was that there comes a time when they're adults and should expect to start behaving like adults. I'm not going to spoil them, and end up with them thinking that they're somehow entitled to exoect the world to cater for their every whim.

That means we have to strike a balance between doing everything we can for the kids, without raising a brood of spoilt, self-indulgent, entitled brats. If you're skint and have never had a well-paid job, that is at least one worry you've never faced. But I've seen the results of over-indulgent well-off parents spoiling kids and the results are not attractive.

I haven't criticised how you raised your kids, but without even knowing the circumstances others are in, you and some others seem happy to criticise decisions others, in different circumstances, make. Just because what worked for you worked doesn't mean it's the only way that would work in your circumstances, or that it would work in my circumstances.

Excellent post! Echo's my sentiments on the matter too.

 

[Jolteh]

The notion of charging your kids rent is outdated, and parents who are doing this need to learn to think for themselves. Just because you were charged rent by your parents, doesn't mean you automatically ask the same of yours.

The world has changed a lot over the past 20 years and the current young generation have it harder than ever starting out as an adult. Skimming a bit off your kid's meagre earning just makes it even harder for them.

Also, taking money off your kids for rent with the intention of 'saving' it for them is incredibly patronising. If you think so little of your children that you think you need to do this for them then you've messed up in their upbringing.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

Also, taking money off your kids for rent with the intention of 'saving' it for them is incredibly patronising. If you think so little of your children that you think you need to do this for them then you've messed up in their upbringing.

100% this.
Even though I understand that some kids wouldn't because of their upbringing, we gave our kids the choice to save themselves and they did.

 

[Brizzles]

The notion of charging your kids rent is outdated, and parents who are doing this need to learn to think for themselves. Just because you were charged rent by your parents, doesn't mean you automatically ask the same of yours.

The world has changed a lot over the past 20 years and the current young generation have it harder than ever starting out as an adult. Skimming a bit off your kid's meagre earning just makes it even harder for them.

Also, taking money off your kids for rent with the intention of 'saving' it for them is incredibly patronising. If you think so little of your children that you think you need to do this for them then you've messed up in their upbringing.

Your entire post sounds like ' Kevin the Teenager '

'The world has changed a lot over the past 20 years and the current young generation have it harder than ever' - lol

Nope, i was a teenager over 30 years ago and the same things were there then - Houses were bloody expensive ( compare to your wage ), unemployment still existited, and we still had inflation vat etc..

Don't paint a rosy picture of a lifetime you didn't live in, to justify your post.

The advantages you have today, compared to 20/30 years ago, you are simply choosing to not acknwoledge.

 

[Lakeland]

The notion of charging your kids rent is outdated, and parents who are doing this need to learn to think for themselves. Just because you were charged rent by your parents, doesn't mean you automatically ask the same of yours.

The world has changed a lot over the past 20 years and the current young generation have it harder than ever starting out as an adult. Skimming a bit off your kid's meagre earning just makes it even harder for them.

Also, taking money off your kids for rent with the intention of 'saving' it for them is incredibly patronising. If you think so little of your children that you think you need to do this for them then you've messed up in their upbringing.

That's a very single-minded post... I plan on giving kids the money back because I ain't a tight get, not because I'm patronising them. Also, for the record, I wasn't charged rent. If my kids were earning a pittance their rent would be proportionately set.

 

[Aldav]

Different situation. 150k in school fees? Dear god, what backwards country is that? Discouraging education is the worst you can do.

Country?

Erm, it depends which year. Mainly, the US. But one was at school in the UK, and at one point, two were at medical school training as doctors in the US and one was doing a year in Florence as part of a post-grad course in fine art.

But I think you're missing the point. I said we were paying $150k, and in fact having thought about it, that was a serious under-estimate for at least one year.

But I didn't say how many kids. It was what we paid, for them all.


Here's a bit of context. The med school alone for those two was about $150k, per year, between them. For four years, and they did overlap. And that doesn't include the four years under-grad pre-med. And that's basic qualifying. Education doesn't stop there, and mine then did about 6 more years, albeit while working but on surprisingly modest salaries, in specialisations.

That is, admittedly, at the higher end of the ladder for med school. But most medical schools are private, and even public ones are still very expensive. If you want, and can get in, top schools it costs top dollar. The med school average is about $50k per year, and to give a comparison, Johns Hopkins currently runs at something around $75k per year. Then add on the younger kids. Without saying where they went, Eton currently costs about £40k per year.

Perhaps now it's becoming a bit clearer why I think the notion that charging rent while kids were living with us, and earning, was somehow exploiting them was so utterly ludicrous. Had we not been paying for their education, the two doctors would now be carrying something like $600k ($300k each, that is) in debt for their med school training alone. As indeed, most doctors without independent means do (in the US).

This is also why I said we happily paid for education, but that it was dependent on results and not for a perpetual student party. We paid for the best we could get, both in school, undergrad and post-grad training, providing the kids took it seriously. They all did. We gave them the best start, the best opportunities, we could but it's up to them to make the best use of it. And I'm delighted that they did, and I couldn't be prouder of them all.

Skimming a bit off your kid's meagre earning just makes it even harder for them.

Skimming? Harder for them?

Oh, dear God that's funny.

 

[Mucky_Pup]

I'm back at my parents house at the minute, I do pay board of only £200 a month though. My house is being built atm though, so will be moving back out when that's done.

 

[Jolteh]

Your entire post sounds like ' Kevin the Teenager '

'The world has changed a lot over the past 20 years and the current young generation have it harder than ever' - lol

Nope, i was a teenager over 30 years ago and the same things were there then - Houses were bloody expensive ( compare to your wage ), unemployment still existited, and we still had inflation vat etc..

Don't paint a rosy picture of a lifetime you didn't live in, to justify your post.

The advantages you have today, compared to 20/30 years ago, you are simply choosing to not acknwoledge.

Dear Brizzles,

I'm indeed sure that unemployment, inflation and vat all existited back when you were playing truant from your English lessons.

I do acknwoledge that the youth of today do have a lot of advantages over your generation, like better education and access to spell checking facilities.

Rest assured, I wasn't painting any rosy pictures, but it was a lifetime I have lived in.

I'd link some articles that discuss why it's comparatively difficult for the millennial generation but I think you'd struggle with them.

Regards,

Kevin the Teenager

 

[balky12]

The notion of charging your kids rent is outdated, and parents who are doing this need to learn to think for themselves. Just because you were charged rent by your parents, doesn't mean you automatically ask the same of yours.

The world has changed a lot over the past 20 years and the current young generation have it harder than ever starting out as an adult. Skimming a bit off your kid's meagre earning just makes it even harder for them.

Also, taking money off your kids for rent with the intention of 'saving' it for them is incredibly patronising. If you think so little of your children that you think you need to do this for them then you've messed up in their upbringing.

World has changed you're right. Living still costs money though. More now than it ever has.

My parents didn't need the money, and they charged me 20% of my total take home as rent every month.

Some of that went into savings for me for when I moved out to furnish my house.

I never struggled whilst paying keep. 2 holidays a year. Festivals. Buying car, house, etc.

I am now 27 moved out with a 3 bedroom semi detached house in the South East earning a fairly decent wage.

My parents basically did everything you're saying is wrong nowadays. Yup, my upbringing was messed up and I am suffering as a consequence.

 

[RaohNS]

Your entire post sounds like ' Kevin the Teenager '

'The world has changed a lot over the past 20 years and the current young generation have it harder than ever' - lol

Nope, i was a teenager over 30 years ago and the same things were there then - Houses were bloody expensive ( compare to your wage ), unemployment still existited, and we still had inflation vat etc..

Don't paint a rosy picture of a lifetime you didn't live in, to justify your post.

The advantages you have today, compared to 20/30 years ago, you are simply choosing to not acknwoledge.

I do have to agree with some of the impetus of this.

Some things kids have today they do have it too easy. Have heard a lot of staff/teachers at my place make the comment "we were made of sterner stuff".

It is true. I have kids now calling in saying they cant be bothered/they have a blister so cant walk in (this is a true story).

I think a lot of the problem in some regards is in terms of jobs and its necessity kids have had a rug pulled out from under them and a mattress to replace it.