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Using a stereo amp for movies

Discussion in 'Home Cinema & Hi-Fi' started by TALON1973, 17 Apr 2020.

  1. jpaul

    Capodecina

    Joined: 1 Mar 2010

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    it shows how netflix want sound engineers to prepare their 2.0 broadcast stream ... so if you take that audio stream, as your tv , with a 2.0 audio device confugured, might do, the lfe is mixed in .... that's the point and relevance ... nothing about a hardware conversion. ?
     
  2. hornetstinger

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    Just create your own test file with .1 lfe bass sounds and test yourself.
     
  3. lucid

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    Location: Cheshire

    The simple fact that you can't appreciate the difference between what's possible with someone sitting in a mixing studio, ironing out any problems induced by the downmix, and what happens when a 5.1 stream/disc/file or broadcast is hardware-down-mixed to 2.0 on-the-fly speaks volumes.
     
  4. hornetstinger

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    Might do, could do, perhaps does, want it to, believe it does, wish it does...
     
  5. TALON1973

    Mobster

    Joined: 28 Jul 2004

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    Location: llanelli , south wales

    Ok .... just take make things clearer.... Everything gets used just as much as each other. Xbox and 4K and Apple TV 4K. Only music tends to be YouTube videos and the odd concert on disc. Netflix and NOWTV also via app on tv. I Rarely watch terrestrial standard tv.

    im WAY out of the loop in regards subs. I assumed if I connected a stereo amp via optical that had a sub pre out I’d 2.1 for everything. Is that not the case ?
     
    Last edited: 24 Apr 2020
  6. hornetstinger

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    Stereo amps lack optical inputs. You would have stereo plus a sub, sub wil receive full range then you use the subs own crossover. Bass will be left and right summed into mini signal.


    But it will lack the dedicated .1 lfe audio. As it won't be downmixed.drom the 5.1 mix.
     
  7. TALON1973

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    Stereo amps do have optical inputs ( some of them ) . That’s already been discussed.
     
  8. lucid

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    It depends on whether we're defining 2.1 in speaker terms or signal terms.

    In speaker terms, 2.1 is broadly understood to mean a stereo pair plus a sub. The '2' is for the stereo speakers, and '.1' is for the sub. You'll find Hi-Fi speaker kits, and AV speaker kits and PC speaker kits referred to as '2.1'. Some of these systems will only be used to play music (20Hz-20kHz), whereas others will have mixed use for music, TV, films and gaming.

    Looking at audio signals though, 2.1 has a different meaning.

    The 2 stands for Left and Right full-range audio (20Hz-20kHz generally, though dance tunes can go lower in bass). The '.1' now refers to an additional frequency-limited bass effects track. The frequency range is from 3Hz to 120Hz. This has nothing to do with what's happening in supplementing the bass from the main stereo pair. You'd still hear the bass thumps of the T-Rex stomping about even without the LFE track. But pass the signal through an AV receiver, and hook up a sub big enough, and you'd feel those stomps as well as hearing them.

    Coming back to your question then, where you said "I’d 2.1 for everything", then I can say for certain that the sub would always be filling in the bass for what the main stereo speakers can't do. If that's what you meant by "2.1" then the answer is yes. This would be the case with a stereo amp with sub out.

    Should you decide that an AV receiver meets your needs better, then the sub will fill in the bass as above, but it will also play the LFE track of any source signal such as a 5.1 movie from Netflix or Apple; and if any of your games make use of LFE too, then the sub will play that as well.
     
  9. hornetstinger

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    When we're talking stereo amp it typically means stereo analogue pre amp or stereo analogue integrated amps.

    Those with digital inputs/dac are something else. "Digital preamp/integrated"
     
  10. TALON1973

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    Looks like I'll be going down the av amp route after all. That slim marantz looks good.
     
  11. jpaul

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    were there other contenders, for the stereo Amp choice .. or, it really jumps to £600 ?
     
  12. TALON1973

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    Location: llanelli , south wales


    The marantz NR1510 can be had for £369
     
  13. hornetstinger

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    Plenty of options. For power it'll be arcam, Denon, pioneer or marantz.

    For relability Yamaha.

    For stereo integrated amps and digital pre/integrated depends on music preference m
     
  14. TALON1973

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    Last edited: 27 Apr 2020
  15. jpaul

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    Although there are some advantages to the AV, consecrating some of the budget to additional/surplus channel amplification still seems questionable
    (unless, with the av you can bi-amp, connect both front/rear left to right front). ... hence, my comment about - other amps.

    hornetstinger - what is the yamaha stereo amp w/dac option in the sub £400 budget ...

    I'd forgotten about wxa-50 , which has some - defeatable, EQ good to see some teardown
    https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ts-of-yamaha-wxa-50-streaming-amp.7964/page-2


    [ couple of interesting links
    https://hometheaterhifi.com/editorial/the-misunderstood-01-lfe-channel-in-51-digital-surround-sound/
    https://bobpariseau.com/blog/2018/6...-or-wait-ive-got-the-wrong-number-of-speakers ]
     
  16. kidloco

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    Joined: 3 Nov 2003

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    Location: Lancashire

    Was in the same boat recently. Decided to go back to purely stereo system, all be it with a sub.

    I picked a stereo amp that had a decent Dac in which is pretty easy these days. Settled on the Arcam SA20.

    Running Focal 906 as my main speakers with a REL T5i sub backing them up. The sub connects directly to the amp speaker posts (high level) so doesn't require an LFE connection.

    The last piece for me was replacing the Nvidia Shield TV as that doesn't have an optical out connection. So I picked up a Vero 4K+ which does. Se KODI to output in 2 channel and everything sounds great to me.

    I was looking a finding something that could downmix a 5.1 to do all the funky phantom modes etc, but right now that's on the backburner. Top of my list was the bargain Marantz NR1510. It has pre-outs so I can go straight to that into the Arcam. I was also looking at the Arcam SR250 but I would need to demo that next to my SA20 to see how it compares.
     
  17. lucid

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    To be fair, your speakers are much better than the OPs though, and his sub doesn't have high-level inputs. If he goes stereo - which is still an option - then he won't get the same sonic benefits as you, and the amp he uses must have a subwoofer out socket otherwise his sub won't work.

    Good stereo speakers, properly set up rather than just placed wherever they might fit, will always make a decent job of AV duties. The reverse is rarely true of pure AV speakers though.
     
  18. lucid

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    Firstly, consecrating means either ordaining someone or declaring some item as sacred. I know we sometimes have those 'Oh God' moments with audio gear, but that's going just a bit too far, don't you think? LMAO :D :p :D

    Secondly, bi-amping from the same power supply in a single chassis is pretty pointless. All it's doing is dividing the existing power in to smaller chunks. It's like taking a cake and cutting it in to a half, or quarters, or in to eighths. No matter how may different ways it's cut, the cake never gets any bigger. Real bi-amping means adding additional power. If bi-amping in the way you suggest makes any difference to sound, its in the effect that adding extra speaker cable has on the sound. Or it's placebo. Your choice.

    I'm curious. What do you think these are adding to the discussion that hasn't already been covered?

    Incidentally, did you read through them and understand what both articles said about LFE and downmixing?

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    Looks like this blows your LFE theory right out of the water. :D
     
  19. hornetstinger

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    My outlaw icbm-1 has some nifty lfe redirection methods.
     
  20. jpaul

    Capodecina

    Joined: 1 Mar 2010

    Posts: 11,296

    not so missile shaped ....

    (EDIT:28/04 for those that couldn't sleep missile was a reference to icbm)

    a hell of as lot more detail ... you know the saying once you stop learning ... google that
    if you read it you know an exception was listed ... was curious if you'd read it
     
    Last edited: 28 Apr 2020