1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

War with Iraq

Discussion in 'SC Archive' started by Jono, 2 Dec 2002.

  1. Jono

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 13,262

    Location: Northallerton/Harrogate

    To be honest, the thought of this is scaring me ****less! There's thousands of people in the middle east who hate us westerners and would be only too happy to use saddam's alleged supply of biological and chemical weapons.

    We don't have enough smallpox vaccine to go around, and we're telling the world this?! I wonder what our enemies' first choice of weapon would be.....hmmm Smallpox perchance?

    Either way, I have NO wish to be involved in a war with the middle east. Not with all the easterners in this country. We all know how easy it is to get into this country, what's to stop people who hate the british/americans/western europe politics/way of life/lack of religion coming here, settling then attacking us from within, with some horrible weapon provided by saddam or anywhere, really.

    Don't really know what I'm writing about, because I'm scared. Am I stupid?

    If we do go to war I know I'll be looking at anyone who looks even slightly foreign (eastern) with great suspicion. Sorry, but I will, and I don't think I'll be the only one.
     
  2. 36:)

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 1,335

    Location: =)

    Why are you scared about Smallpox?

    What POSSIBLE reason are you afraid of JUST SMALLPOX?

    Terrorists, real and otherwise, could use anthrax, cryptococcosis, escherichia coli, haemophilus influenzae, brucellosis (undulant fever), coccidioidomycosis (San Joaquin Valley or desert fever), psittacosis (parrot fever), yersina pestis (the Black Death of the 14th Century), tularemia (rabbit fever), malaria, cholera, typhoid, bubonic plague, cobra venom, shellfish toxin, botulinal toxin, saxitoxin, ricin, shigella flexneri, s. dysenteriae (Shiga bacillus), salmonella, staphylococcus enterotoxin B, hemorrhagic fever, Venezuelan equine encephalitis, histoplasma capsulatum, pneumonic plague, Rocky Mountain spotted fever, dengue fever, Rift Valley fever, diphtheria, melioidosis, glanders, tuberculosis, infectious hepatitis, encephalitides, blastomycosis, nocardiosis, yellow fever, typhus, tricothecene mycotoxin, aflatoxin, Q fever, or ebola.

    The idea that smallpox is being waved around by Governments does indeed suggest a *cough* *achu* *ahem* *cough* *COUGH*
     
  3. Yossarian

    Hitman

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 919

    Location: Rascasse Cafe

    And there were many people in the US who literally wanted to "nuke" Afghanistan after Sept-11.

    Genocide has been suggested on these forums as well by people who otherwise appeared sane, mainly against gypsies and travellers IIRC.
     
  4. 36:)

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 1,335

    Location: =)

    Re: Re: War with Iraq

    I wanted democracy and a stable Afghanistan BEFORE September 11th just out of moral concerns to be honest, and nuking is never the answer, even if some neo fascists have bought a nuclear weapon from Israel 30 years after the 1973 Yom Kippour War and detinated it in America and blamed it on a hardline Russian *coughs*

    Anyway Afghanistan 'officially' is completly different to Iraq with regards to September 11th, and those who want to nuke Iraq should ask themselves why!
     
  5. bandit

    Mobster

    Joined: 6 Nov 2002

    Posts: 4,277

    Location: Brum, Brum, Brum, Brum....

  6. bandit

    Mobster

    Joined: 6 Nov 2002

    Posts: 4,277

    Location: Brum, Brum, Brum, Brum....

    and what is there to stop the "westerners" using bombs and other things on 'EAstyerners'? nothing.....sorry, they aleady used them to kill more afghans than americans died in the twin towers.

    Is the like of a 'westerner' more valuable then an 'easterner'?

    Bandit
     
  7. Jono

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 13,262

    Location: Northallerton/Harrogate

    Re: Re: War with Iraq

    Course not!! I think we should leave them alone. They got on fine before we came along. I bet there'd be no conflict if we kept to ourselves.
     
  8. Will

    Mobster

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 4,432

    Location: Halesowen

    Hopefully the UN inspectors will do their job without any hindrance, and hopefully Saddams got the message, and there will be no war.

    If we do go to war with Iraq, the threat to this country will remain a terrorist ones rather than conventional warfare from a Middle Eastern country. We are too far away for any Middle East country to attack us in any way other than by a terrorist style attack.

    So far, terrorist attacks with chemical and biological weapons have been pretty ineffective. All the business with Anthrax last year in the US 'only' killed a few people, and the nerve gas attack on the Japanese subway in Tokyo only killed I think 12. The threat of *you* being the victim of any such attack is extremely unlikely. The nastier Biological agents are often very hard to prepare and 'deliver' against a target. Chemical weapons such as nerve gas disperse quite easily so I am led to believe.

    Any war against Iraq is likely to be short (IMHO) as Iraqs military is not up to much thanks to the sanctions, which have left them without much access to spare parts for their equipment and supplies, and I can't see any other country getting involved that would start a wider war.

    In the Gulf War Saddam tried to turn it into a larger war of Arab States vs Israel, America and other western allies, but he failed then, and I think he'd fail if he tried it again.

    I have some worries about any war , but I think much of what has talked about in the media in this case is simply scaremongering (and I hope I am proved right that it is just that).

    I'm not so sure myself about this :( the Bali bomb to me siginified that they are not just against military intervention or support for Israel but about our whole culture as well. Bali (IIRC) was the only Indonesian island where there isn't a Muslim majority, so its not like the western culture of the tourists was taking over any Islamic culture. To me it seems just like they are so intolerant and anyone who isn't like them is deserving of death. In what way wass blowing up holiday makers in Bali, who contribute much to the wealth of the island and the prosperity and standard of living of those who live there, any protest against military intervention or our pro-Israeli stance, rather than against our entire culture? Personally I no longer think if we all went home and left them to it they'd just ignore us :(
     
    Last edited: 2 Dec 2002
  9. bandit

    Mobster

    Joined: 6 Nov 2002

    Posts: 4,277

    Location: Brum, Brum, Brum, Brum....

    Re: Re: Re: War with Iraq

    there would have, I betcha.

    why? because we would have been the ones supplying weapons and training to terrorists, wo would save them up for the day they would use them against us!

    WE supplied Osama, Saddam, Mugabe, Israel...all either kills others, or turn it against us sooner or later.

    Bandit
     
  10. bandit

    Mobster

    Joined: 6 Nov 2002

    Posts: 4,277

    Location: Brum, Brum, Brum, Brum....

    why have we chosen to go into Iraq now? what have we been doning for the last ten years? could this be only about OIL?

    Thats true, apart from off course contagious diseases like Ebola....


    I think that this time might be more dangerous.
    SAddam knows that he can survive, and that is the only thing that keeps him in line. if he thinks that he will be disposed, he will probably giove whatever weapons he has to anyone...including osama.

    Also, normally anti-iraq countries are twitchy, e.g. Eygpt, Saudi.

    What worries me more is the wanton use of WMD by the United States against other countries. Bush is more willing to use these weapons then anyone else...

    Bandit
     
    Last edited: 2 Dec 2002
  11. Jono

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 13,262

    Location: Northallerton/Harrogate

    Re: Re: Re: Re: War with Iraq

    Ah, but for argument's sake...just SUPPOSE we didn't. We're dumb we are. Now I think we're going to pay the price.

    Hmmm - i'll shurrup :D
     
  12. Will

    Mobster

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 4,432

    Location: Halesowen

    Ebola while extremely virulent has not so far as I have read been prepared by anyone for use as a biological weapon (thank gord), and its so hazardous to work with I'm not sure terrorists would be able to manage it. Lets hope not!


    :)
     
  13. pyro

    Capodecina

    Joined: 23 Nov 2002

    Posts: 16,167

    if ill start counting the bio and nuclear weapons in us and former ussr i will grow old:rolleyes:
     
  14. Marcus

    Closed

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 870

    According to Ken Alibek, Ebola and other hemorraghic fevers were weaponised by the Soviet Union at the Vector laboratoy in Siberia. Alibek was the Director of the Stepnogorsk facility in Kazakhstan from 1983-1987. This was one of the largest bioweapons program facilities in the world with 800 + staff.
     
  15. KPeh

    Mobster

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 2,852

    Location: UK

    That guy is a fool.


    Ha! Surely the Americans have been involved in the largest amount of foreign wars in the last 100 years?

    Hm. This is inspiring me to create a thread about Bowling for Columbine..
     
  16. Stiff_Cookie

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 9,851

    Location: Abilene, Texas

    how many times have the last three presidents used chemical weapons? none

    how many times has saddam used chemical weapons at least once;)
     
  17. Marcus

    Closed

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 870

    Indeed, but I think you'll find it's more than a dozen times. And he has used mustard gas, Sarin, Tabun and VX gas, among others. These were all used at Halabja in 1988, where some 5000 civilians were killed and bout 7000 more injured. There are also unconfirmed reports that cyanide gas was used at Halabja. Saddam also used chemical weapons against some 20 villages in 1987.
     
  18. pyro

    Capodecina

    Joined: 23 Nov 2002

    Posts: 16,167

    Originally posted by Stiff_Cookie
    i guess you don't know what happened with the chechen fighters at the opera house in russia...:rolleyes:
     
  19. L Plate

    Mobster

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 2,695

    Location: Woolwich and Edinburgh

    at a guess (and it doesnt take the brains of an arch bishop :D ) i would say that being an American Stiff Cookie is referring to the US Presidents ;)

    and Saddam used Chemical weapons on numerous occasions, not only against the Kurds as a test but also on the frontline against Iran ;)
     
  20. bandit

    Mobster

    Joined: 6 Nov 2002

    Posts: 4,277

    Location: Brum, Brum, Brum, Brum....

    that may be true. but does this mean that it is alright to use WMD against another nation?

    I remember when the gulf war started, and we had reports of atrocities in Iraq and kuwait. there was a little girl, can't remember her name that said that she saw babaies being killing in incubators. this and other stuff was used to enrage public opinion. later we found out that she was a daughter of an ambassedor, and that even the kuewaitis rubbished the incubator story.

    yesterday, Poodle-Blair published the lasstest list of 'atrcities' by saddam.

    I worry that we are being fed mis-information. they did it once and it worked, why not try again?

    The information they supplied about using bio weapons may be true, but once bitten twice shy.

    Bandit