Watching World Cup Football on the Internet - TV Licence?

[paul@]

Actually it would be pretty simple. Record IP's, then check address's known for not having a TV licence. Check if the IP for that address's broadband matches any listed for watching the programme.

Seems a pretty simple check to me. Certainly easier than having men drive around in vans checking for naughty signals.

I think that would not be possible as the ISP will not release customer information without a court order

They can only allow the content of the football for example to be blocked to UK IP ranges so no one on the outside of the UK can retrieve the football!!

 

[Phil99]

new PC tax

 

[paul@]

http://www.weeklygripe.co.uk/a152.asp

Intresting read, yet almost impossible to enforce!


TV licencing Authority cannot pick up what's on your PC CRT or PC LCD monitor

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/10/19/detector_vans_cant_tell_youre/

 

[Phil99]

http://www.weeklygripe.co.uk/a152.asp

Intresting read, yet almost impossible to enforce!

Basically the whole idea of a PC tax is seriously flawed and I predict that it won’t even get off the ground.

I agree with the author of the article.

Maybe there should be an "Electronic TV License" where you have to enter your TV License number/details to get access to the video streams? This would solve the problems of it being uneforcable, and if they felt the need to charge people to view content over the Internet, they can record who watches IPTV and who doesn't.

I don't see how they can justify charging people once for a TV license and then again to watch it on the Internet though.

 

[Locrian]

I think somebody should read the links that have already been posted as that does explain why there is the need for a license.
The link:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5081350.stm
Does a very good job of explaining.
.......

Thanks but i actually did read the links. The day an FAQ from the bbc news website becomes enforcable law i will shoot my grandma. Show me the actual, enforcable legislation. Im sure loads of people at work will have streamed it without a licence. Show me the court orders.

 

[Bug One]

I think that would not be possible as the ISP will not release customer information without a court order

You mean in the same way they cannot come into your home and perform a search without one?

 

[Locrian]

You mean in the same way they cannot come into your home and perform a search without one?

It was my understand that if they dont have a warrant you dont have to let them in. So, yes.

 

[paul@]

You mean in the same way they cannot come into your home and perform a search without one?

I would believe that to get an ISP to release your details from an IP is much more time consuming than applying for a search warrant over a TV licence.

Why?

The ISP cannot release your details to anyone otherwise they are breaching the data protection act. They can only disclose specific details about a specific customer regarding a specific allegation provided there is a court order.

 

[Bug One]

Thanks but i actually did read the links. The day an FAQ from the bbc news website becomes enforcable law i will shoot my grandma. Show me the actual, enforcable legislation. Im sure loads of people at work will have streamed it without a licence. Show me the court orders.

Fine, read it straight off the TV Licencing website.

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/information/index.jsp

Or phone them and ask. 0870 241 6468.

 

[Phil99]

Thanks but i actually did read the links. The day an FAQ from the bbc news website becomes enforcable law i will shoot my grandma. Show me the actual, enforcable legislation. Im sure loads of people at work will have streamed it without a licence. Show me the court orders.

Meaning of "television receiver"
9. - (1) In Part 4 of the Act (licensing of TV reception), "television receiver" means any apparatus installed or used for the purpose of receiving (whether by means of wireless telegraphy or otherwise) any television programme service, whether or not it is installed or used for any other purpose.

A licence -

(a) to install and use television receivers at the single place specified in the licence or, as the case may be, in the single vehicle, vessel or caravan so specified ("the specified location")

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2004/20040692.htm#9

Would that count? A PC used with the intention of watching online streams would appear to come under the description of "Television Receiver"

 

[paul@]

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2004/20040692.htm#9

Would that count? A PC used with the intention of watching online streams would appear to come under the description of "Television Receiver"

No.

 

[Phil99]

No.

If you have a TV tuner inside your pc then yes. By default a PC cannot receive signals from an aerial cable.

the purpose of receiving (whether by means of wireless telegraphy or otherwise) any television programme service

Where does it say by aerial only?

 

[paul@]

False again

Its a huge grey area.

Please continue to watch BBC football matches and Tennis over your "internet connection" without a need for a TV licence.

You won't get caught, as they cannot detect

 

[Phil99]

False again

Its a huge grey area.

Actually explain how then, I've provided several reliable sources and reasons for why I think it does require a license.

BBC are streaming (broadcasting) TV programmes.

PC is receiving TV programmes.

TV Licensing clearly states receiving TV programmes over any medium on any device = needs license

I'm failing to see the grey area in the particular case of the World Cup streams.


edit: there's a difference between not getting caught and it being legal

 

[leaskovski]

I just find it comical that you have to have a TV licence for every place that you may visit and watch BBC streams. Why your home licence is not allow to cover you is beyond me.

 

[paul@]

Actually explain how then, I've provided several reliable sources and reasons for why I think it does require a license.

BBC are streaming (broadcasting) TV programmes.

PC is receiving TV programmes.

TV Licensing clearly states receiving TV programmes over any medium on any device = needs license

I'm failing to see the grey area in the particular case of the World Cup streams.


edit: there's a difference between not getting caught and it being legal

I stand on being legal and not being caught as the law does not cover it.

Watching football over the internet is not the same as watching TV that is being transmitted over aerial.

No matter what you say I had a TV licencing person who came around very clearly I told him that I was watching football on this PC monitor that is streamed over the internet.

As far the TV licencing authority is concerned, I don't have a TV or any device that is connected to a AERIAL/Cable/Sky in order to receive the content.

That is why I won't face ANY legal action against me and NOR will anyone doing the same.

Edit:

The BBC are as usual scaremongering and to prove your statement wrong I have just called the TV licencing Authority and explained my case. I DO NOT REQUIRE A LICENCE!!

 

[Locrian]

Fine, read it straight off the TV Licencing website.

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/information/index.jsp

Or phone them and ask. 0870 241 6468.

If you use a TV or any other device to receive or record TV programmes (for example, a VCR, set-top box, DVD recorder or PC with a broadcast card) - you need a TV Licence. You are required by law to have one.

I realise that they are only examples but nowhere is it explicitly defined that a computer connected to the internet is liable.

Meaning of "television receiver"
9. - (1) In Part 4 of the Act (licensing of TV reception), "television receiver" means any apparatus installed or used for the purpose of receiving (whether by means of wireless telegraphy or otherwise) any television programme service, whether or not it is installed or used for any other purpose.

Again another poor piece of evidence for your cause because if you are correct, then every single computer connected to the internet is liable for a TV license since it can recieve TV, 'used' or not

God knows why the BBC didnt just make the online streaming a subscription service i have no idea. Then we wouldnt have this mess

 

[Phil99]

I stand on being legal and not being caught as the law does not cover it.

Watching football over the internet is not the same as watching TV that is being transmitted over aerial.

No matter what you say I had a TV licencing person who came around very clearly I told him that I was watching football on this PC monitor that is streamed over the internet.

As far the TV licencing authority is concerned, I don't have a TV or any device that is connected to a AERIAL/Cable/Sky in order to receive the content.

That is why I won't face ANY legal action against me and NOR will anyone doing the same.

Edit:

The BBC are as usual scaremongering and to prove your statement wrong I have just called the TV licencing Authority and explained my case. I DO NOT REQUIRE A LICENCE!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5081350.stm

The BBC refer to the law in this article where they state a license is needed so I would imagine they would face severe consequences for misleading the public for their own benefit.

Also see this article:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5074406.stm

Where a TV license spokesperson says:

"We know exactly which unlicensed business premises to target."

"It doesn't matter how you're watching, if you are watching a live match you will need a licence," said a TV Licensing spokesperson.

I'm not suggesting that you're lying when you refer to your own contact to the TV Licensing Authority, however it sounds like there's been a level of confusion with their staff as their official line is clearly that a license is required.

 

[Bug One]

Edit:

The BBC are as usual scaremongering and to prove your statement wrong I have just called the TV licencing Authority and explained my case. I DO NOT REQUIRE A LICENCE!!

Rubbish - Thats a Lie!
I have just phoned them up to check. It is very simple. You require a licence to watch the BBC streamed football over the Internet.

Anyone who doubts this, phone TV Licencing now. 0870 241 6468.

If you wish to run the risk, the thats your decision, and I'd of thought it very unlikely they could actually catch you. But you should be aware you are breaking the law.

 

[Phil99]

I realise that they are only examples but nowhere is it explicitly defined that a computer connected to the internet is liable.

It doesn't say that they're explicitely immune to this either.

Again another poor piece of evidence for your cause because if you are correct, then every single computer connected to the internet is liable for a TV license since it can recieve TV, 'used' or not

It says for the purpose of. If I connect a computer to the Internet and have no intention of watching an online stream I can't see how I would be liable under that act as I have not installed it for the purpose of watching the stream.

If I watch the streams, however, a purpose of the computer is clearly to watch the broadcast, despite the computer having other uses ("whether or not it is installed or used for any other purpose.")