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What DO you believe?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by hooneeawr, 21 Jan 2006.

  1. hooneeawr

    Hitman

    Joined: 25 Mar 2004

    Posts: 628

    Location: Aberdeen

    zz
     
    Last edited: 21 Jan 2006
  2. Indy11

    Gangster

    Joined: 6 Dec 2004

    Posts: 270

    Location: New York, NY

    There probably is something but it is not the God of the Bible, or the God of the Koran. To the extent that other belief systems may refer to some kind of a "continuum" to which all worthy sentience ultimately may become incorporated, I would prefer such a thing to be true but am unable to proclaim it as an article of faith.
     
  3. The Edge

    Soldato

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 5,730

    Location: Birmingham

    What must be remembered about Christianity, Judaism and Islam is that they were developing in pretty much the same area at the same time. Judaism stopped at the end of the Old Testament. They are still waiting for their "saviour" to come as they did not beleive that Jesus was the Messiah. Islam worships Jesus as a prophet, but do not beleive he is a saviour or the son of god. They believe that someone died on the cross in his place. Christianity i think we all know about :).

    But those are not the only similarities, far from it. The Old Testament of the Bible is basically the Torah. Most of the stories in the Bible are also in the Koran, albeit with differant names. Abraham is called Ismeal IIRC, and the story of Abraham and the sacrifice of his son is where the sacrifice for Eid ul Addha comes from.

    It really does wonder what we are all fighting over :)

    If it comes down to it, the Jews, Muslims and Christians all worship the same God, they just go about it in slightly differant ways.
     
  4. PlacidCasual

    Soldato

    Joined: 13 May 2003

    Posts: 6,487

    I'm not sure what I believe. Certainly the education I recieved at school was your basic Christian foundation of parabels and stories. None of my immediate family is particularly religous but neither do we turn our back on it. So I'm not sure God exists but equally I do not discount his existence. I work on the basis if God did once act through humans in our distant past then much of the Old Testament is metaphor to giude us.
    I would say however my moral sense if firmly grounded is Christianity (new testament) and as such I have great fondness for the Anglican Church. If I knew I believed that would be the model for faith I would follow, I percieve it to be a largely benign undogmatic faith that is comfortable in the modern World because it is always questioning itself and is plainly the twin of the society I live in.
    I may have the words wrong I will need to check some definitions and part of it may be contradictory but I am a Christian Humanist (although its not something I would write on my business card). edit: checked a definition of humanism and it fits what i was trying to say
     
  5. Ricochet J

    Capodecina

    Joined: 29 Jun 2004

    Posts: 12,886

    Woot! :p Now that's out of the way, i'm Sikh. I believe in my faith and try to follow Sikhism the best way possible I can. Now a bit of history. I doubt not many people know what Sikhism is or even heard of Sikhism and knew it was a religion. However I can assure you it is considered one of the major religions on our planet. But in short, its probably the same as many other religions. We had ten Guru's who taught us to pray to God. To respect God and not just God alone, to respect everyone and everything regardless of thier creed, colour or nationality. Before the tenth Guru died all the holy scriptures of the nine Guru's before him and the scriptures and holy hymns that he wrote himself too were all collected together. Then was formed the Shri Guru Granth Sahib. The Bible of the Sikh religion. The Guru Granth Sahib (Sikhism's holy book) currently sits in the Harminder Sahib, Amritsar in India. Harminder Sahib being the Sikh's holiest shrine and it is open to anyone anywhere again, regardless of your creed, colour or nationality.

    Now the problem with religion is the modern world. With increasing knowledge of the world its becoming harder and harder for new people to choose a faith they believe in. Its okay for me, I even study physics. I understand though that the physics contradicts alot of religious believes. No doubt without breaking the laws of physics how did Jesus walk on water? How did Allah casue the rocks to come crashing down to protect Prohphet Mohammed? Its upsetting to many, but its the way of life.
    The way I think of it is that God did indeed create Physics, and Mathematics and everything else we know of in some way or form. In my opinion and my eyes it tells me its God's way of testing people's determination to thier faith and weather or not they choose to believe the immortal religion, or the mortal reality.
    Although it might be difficult choosing between the two for other religions I find it straight forward to pick my religion. Its because with respect and without sounding rude, Sikhism doesn't have any special powers. For example, any Guru's walking on water or causing mountains to fall. Sorry if this sounds rude but I don't know how to put it. Sikhism is very human. The guru's were human. They taught us the way of pieceful living and harmony with faith in God. Nothing spectacular. But they also taught us too defend and fight. Not meaning like suicide bombers or hitmen. But very Sikh male is considered a Saint Soldier. To protect and serve. Every Sikh female is considered devine beauty and mother of everything. The males and females work with each other to lead a good life. No one is more powerful than the other. Both are interdependant.

    And to tell the truth, Sikhism does work for me. Although our origins can be traced back to Hinduism and Islam we're a totally different religion. And I reckon it works well with the modern world. Thats how I look at life.

    :)
     
  6. THMRK

    Mobster

    Joined: 19 May 2005

    Posts: 4,548

    Location: Glasgow, Rock City.

    I believe this is the 3rd time this week we've had this thread...
     
  7. Jumpingmedic

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 6 Oct 2004

    Posts: 1,509

    Location: Behind you!

    Ambiguous topic.. but I'll assume you're talking on a religious/philosophical level.

    I believe that God created science and that science created us. It's a rather liberal interpretation of the bible, but I stand by it for now.

    My reasoning is that Jesus said we cannot exist without God, therefore anyone who does not believe in God would instantly die. However with science we can survive, even if we don't believe in God, science sustains our bodies.. but not our souls. God created science to give those who do not originally believe in him a chance to change their minds.

    Once we die only God can sustain our existance. My arguments are not absolutely supported by the bible or any other religious source, although there are clues. But it is what makes sense to me. It's what I believe.
     
  8. MrWhippy

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 15 Sep 2005

    Posts: 1,497

    i believe that children are our future ;)
     
  9. 5.0L-V8-Capri

    Associate

    Joined: 26 Jun 2005

    Posts: 27

    "God created science to give those who do not originally believe in him a chance to change their minds."




    If that's the case, as a NON beleiver i'm a damned/dead man!- along with the millions upon millions who DID actually believe in him but have suffered badly and died upon this planet ( and still are- and will do in the future!) in/for the name of god in all his guises!


    What a smashing bloke he is eh?........Top man!!
     
  10. Che

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 13 Mar 2005

    Posts: 2,240

    Location: Djibouti

    Sikhism sounds good to me eXSBass, if I ever need a religion I'll look into it! :)
     
  11. robmiller

    Capodecina

    Joined: 26 Dec 2003

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    Location: London

    They all have a common origin, sure, but they by no means developed at the same time. I'm not particularly sure when Judaism was founded - it's pretty hard to tell, since they claim to have existed since god created the world - but it was definitely around for a period of time in the order of hundreds of years before Christianity, which in turn has been around for about 600 years longer than Islam, which is a comparatively young religion, especially compared to some of the eastern religions - Hinduism, for example, has been around for about 3,500 years.

    Yep, they're all Abrahamic religions and can trace their ancestry back to common Semitic traditions - and, as their name suggests, back to the Biblical figure of Abraham, the father of monotheistic religion. Like you said, they have lots of similarities, but the fact that they're different religions says volumes about them - both Christianity and Islam were created because of dissatisfaction with "the Jewish way of doing things", and Islam - although to a lesser extent - due to dissatisfaction with the Christian paradigm. Muslims view the Qur'an as the "corrected" version of the Torah, for example, and Christian morality is a more up-to-date, liberal version of that in the Torah.

    It's not a wonder that they're fighting, it's a wonder they've not all murdered each other a long time ago :p
     
  12. Indy11

    Gangster

    Joined: 6 Dec 2004

    Posts: 270

    Location: New York, NY

    Ummm. Zoroastrianism, in Persia also was/is(?) monotheistic.

    And evidence has been found in the Middle East that early jews also worshipped a mother goddess, Ashera. Monotheistic Judaism today wans't always just monotheistic in its historical past. There is some suggestion that worshipping Ashera disappeared at about the time of the rule of Zoroastrian Persians in Israel.
     
  13. Ricochet J

    Capodecina

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    If you need any more info let me know, email in trust.
    It's fairly newish, around 15th century. :)
     
  14. dual2max

    Gangster

    Joined: 6 Sep 2005

    Posts: 278

    I believe in Death. For it is the only universal constant. When I'm there, i'll let you know if I've changed my mind.
     
  15. e36Adz

    Capodecina

    Joined: 28 Nov 2003

    Posts: 11,198

    Location: Manchester, UK

    Just to clear afew of the points that The Edge made.. in Islam, muslims do regard Jesus PBUH as a prophet of God, 'worship' is the wrong word to use there :) Also, Abraham PBUH is called Ibrahim, again he is regarded as a prophet of God, and you are correct in saying thats where the sacrifice for Eid comes from.


    As a muslim, I believe in the Quran as the word of God. There are no updates, no different versions, just one book which is in arabic (now translated to many other languages). I believe before the Quran, God sent other prophets with other books/scriptures including the bible, torah etc all of which over time were changed slowly by man to suit man. The Quran being the final testament to man, on which God has put His protection, guarding it from corruption.

    Muslims believe in all the prophets starting from Adam PBUH upto the final prophet Muhammed PBUH, the difference in prophets being that each one was sent to a particular nation or group of people, the last prophet however was for all off mankind, his message the Quran is still here in its original form for anyone to read.

    I believe as Christians do, in God, in the angels, in heaven and hell, in Mary, in Jesus, in the miraculous birth of Jesus, his miracles etc without any doubts, but I do not believe that Jesus PBUH was God/the son of God, neither do I believe he ever claimed such a thing. I dont believe in any trinity either and I dont believe Jesus PBUH ever claimed he was part of a trinity, also muslims dont believe that Jesus was crucified or resurrected. So there are some differences there between Islam and Christianity.

    Quran says:

    "The Messiah (Jesus), son of Mary, was no more than a Messenger before whom many Messengers have passed away; and his mother adhered wholly to truthfulness, and they both ate food (as other mortals do). See how We make Our signs clear to them; and see where they are turning away!" (Quran 5:75)

    "She (Mary) said: ‘O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me.' He (God) said: ‘So (it will be) for God creates what He wills. When He has decreed something, He says to it only: ‘Be!'- and it is" (3:47).

    "People of the Book (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, and attribute to God nothing except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of God, and His command that He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and in His Messengers, and do not say: ‘God is a Trinity.' Give up this assertion; it would be better for you. God is indeed just One God. Far be it from His glory that He should have a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth. God is sufficient for a guardian" (Quran 4:171).


    There are many reasons why I believe Islam is the truth, if I sat here giving all the reasons id be here all night ;) Sadly people have a bad misconception about Islam, based on what they see on the tv etc but when they actually study it themself they realise what its all about. Some brilliant programs here about people, including former priests/preachers who have accepted Islam and their reasons why...

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1489047104871776788&q=islam
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9184353144432289069&q=islam+muslim
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4715939938837859198&q=islam+muslim
     
  16. Ricochet J

    Capodecina

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    ?? :confused:
     
  17. skolem

    Gangster

    Joined: 19 Oct 2002

    Posts: 442

    I belive in the the God of the bible, in Jesus as the son of God and all the things that go with that. Instead of giving you all a theological set of reasons, I'll tell you about my real life experiences of God, spanning the last 7 or so months.

    I have a real relationship with God, I have communication with him and see him act in my every day life. Here though, are some of the bigger things that have happened in my life that I belive was God.

    The contract on our flat was due to run out at the end of last June. My wife and I knew this and had been looking for somewhere to move into for several months. We had quite specific needs, mainly because of my Job which required a certain location. We prayed specifically for the things in a house/flat that we needed and wanted, but had not found anything. We had seen places that we could have moved into and survived in, which most people would have moved to by then, as it was at the stage that we had less than a week to move and nowhere to go. But we trusted God and started packing. 4 days before the deadline (we had been looking for months remember), we discover a flat advertised in our church, exactly where we needed it, going cheaper than it should be, actually bigger than what we'd been praying for and with everything we needed. As it turned out our landlords were extremely good to us, and it was actually also an answer to their prayers that we came along at that time too.

    I was starting a new job in September, I needed a motorbike to get me to work. I prayed very specifically to God for what I needed / wanted. Including, make, colour, age, mileage, condition, price, location (If you're interested : Black SV650s, 1998 model or newer, less than 10,000 miles, great condition, no more than £2500, located in my town or near by). There weren't that many SV's around, and due to family commitments I ended up only having a week and a half in which to find this bike and buy it. And low and behold, just in my area, the EXACT bike I had been praying for turns up, at exactly the right moment (Actually the spec was better than I had been praying for, cheaper, newer, with less miles). There was not another bike like it in the country, and there had not been in the time I had been monitoring the market.

    Come December, we discover the sale of the flat we were in had finally gone through and we had to move out (it was rented by us). Unfortuneately due to Christmas and new year etc that meant we only had a couple of weeks, as we knew we would have to leave soon anyway we had been looking, but had found nothing. We prayed about it, again very specifically, and just in time, we get the price down quite significantly on a flat and move in the week before Christmas. Again, we had been looking for months.. nothing, then just as we needed it, it was there.

    This is the God I belive in, Jesus who promisies to supply all our needs, which is why I can trust him with these things. I am not boasting about these things, but want to give you real life examples of God in action, rather than some hand wavy theology. These stories could have all happened by concidence perhaps, but you havemore faith in chance than I do if you belive that. In this time I have also seen numerous people healed, I have seen breakthroughs in peoples situations, and heard from friends at church of many more things I have not been directly involved in.

    God is real, and is very much part of my life, which is why I believe the bible, and all the theology in it that I could talk to you folk about. These are just a few things God has done for me, so how can I deny he is there?
     
  18. anarchist

    PermaBanned

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  19. Baker

    PermaBanned

    Joined: 27 Sep 2004

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    I'm not religious. In times of grief I wonder why certain things have happened and whether there is something else behind it, but I don't "believe" in it as such.
     
  20. Matt82

    Capodecina

    Joined: 13 Mar 2004

    Posts: 16,569

    i do not beleive in any religion. there is something inherently wrong with religious types who live out their lives according to a 2000 year old book