Soldato
You were doing okay until £1k for a charger.
When are you going fully electric?
- Thread starter Ricochet J
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Ah yes. You get benefits
Pretty much the same view from Harry Metcalfe and he’s driven most cars. Think he got the new X5 hybrid as his daily earlier this year.
Soldato
If you haven't got the £10k extra to commit up front then why are you comparing it to a Golf which will also cost you that £10k up front and then another extra £10k in fuel over 5 years?
So in your scenario where you only have £15k up front and running costs are irrelevant, which similar new £15k ICE car would you buy instead?
The reason EVs still aren't as popular as ICE is multiple:
People are afraid of change
People have range/charge anxiety - perfectly justified at present (depending on usage)
People can't afford a new car regardless of whether it's ICE or EV - an extra £5-10k on top of £15-20k you already can't afford makes no difference and it will take a few years for "mature" EVs to filter into the lower end of the used market
The financial side of it is more complex as it depends on how much you use it and where you can charge, but for any people an EV would cost similar or less than an ICE over the total life of the vehicle
Soldato
I don't believe it does apply, I think from what I can tell its purely based on the Ev range when the Co2 is between 1 and 50, the lower the EV range the higher the BIK
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
It's not free money, you still have the cost of capital associated with borrowing it if that's the route you take.
I'm not! I was the one arguing it was incomparable to a Golf.
Soldato
Fox is treating this like its an investment.
By committing £25k instead of £15k your losing out on what you could earn on the £10k or what its costing you to finance that.
Right now the lost investment is pretty mute. But if its costing you 3% on the £10k thats £300 a year extra you need to save.
Its part of the full lifecycle cost of the purchase.
Cost of capital is part of any investment or capital purchase decision.
Most consumers wont care, but ask an accountant to comment and your going to get this type of response.
I say as an accountant
Soldato
If you really want to argue it I would go along the lines of :
If it was purely something to do with pure financials no one would buy a 530d as opposed to a 520d when a 520d clearly can do everything a 530d can do, less a few non financial benefits like accelerating faster, but the 530d will use more fuel, hence most car buyers are irrational and clearly see some non financial benefit in their choices which must be worth at least as much as the extra costs in making that choice
secondly, the ev depreciation curve is likely to be, although by no means guaranteed to be, less aggressive and probably with a longer tail than an ICE equivalent due to the residual value after say 3-10 years being higher than an ICE car as the cells themselves clearly have a demand and value where as used ICE cars are practically all virtually valueless after 10 years with the highest cost item from the ICE, apart from some fairly rare examples, now a lump of metal thats badly worn ready to be scrapped
The cost of Ev ownership being higher upfront (or monthlies) offset by significantly lower runnings costs and possibly lower depreciation over a decent period.
It may never be the case that EVs are as cheap to run than ICE cars, but clearly most accept we cannot run ICE cars forever (environmental plus supply of crude), so the economics argument is mute. Its not about economics really, its about hwo we get to the next state of mass transportation thats not reliant on oil.
Soldato
I don't disagree with this at all. However it does make sense to pay £10k more to save say £12k. This is completely dependent on your usage and definitely won't apply to everyone, but it does for me which is the only scenario I can comment on with absolute authority
Soldato
False, in my scenario (21mpg petrol 3.7v6, 10k a year, 2011 car) it was an extra 1200 quid a year to drive a brand new ev compared to spending money running the older car.
Soldato
Knock yourself out boys and go buy a Chinese EV to put your money where you mouth is, just don’t come in having not done that but proceed to tell other they should be. 
Soldato
Soldato
Cost isn't necessarily the only motivation for switching to an EV, in my opinion it's a nicer experience for mundane day to day driving.
Every time I go out I could grab the keys to the M850i but I usually take the e-Golf instead because I genuinely prefer the EV driving experience!
I spent almost $4k having a trench dug and a 100A subpanel installed in my detached garage so I could install a charger - that's never going to be repaid in fuel savings but it doesn't matter.
Every time I go out I could grab the keys to the M850i but I usually take the e-Golf instead because I genuinely prefer the EV driving experience!
I spent almost $4k having a trench dug and a 100A subpanel installed in my detached garage so I could install a charger - that's never going to be repaid in fuel savings but it doesn't matter.
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Soldato
This!
Soldato
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What are the parts of an electric car that are not made using products of the petrochemical industry?
Soldato
Knock yourself out boys and go buy a Chinese EV to put your money where you mouth is, just don’t come in having not done that but proceed to tell other they should be.
It's probably more reliable than a Range Rover
I currently drive a French EV, not sure if a Chinese one would be an upgrade or downgrade TBH...
Joking aside, if you're in the market for a new car and it's the best option for you, then why wouldn't you consider it just because it happens to be Chinese? Sure they make plenty of low quality dodgy knock-offs... but they also make a large proportion of the electronics in use in "European" cars as well.
Was just going to say, just because it’s Chinese, doesn’t mean it’s bad. In reality they can pretty much make any product at any quality, price is the main driver. Just look at the consumer electronics industry. The same company that makes the iPhone, also makes cheap phones for emerging markets.
Are you saying the Polestar 2 is also bad because it’s made in China?
Lots of people have the other MG EV and are perfectly happy about it. Sure it’s not going to cross shop with Audi but it isn't meant to. But it does cross shop with those targeting the more affordable end of the market.
Chinese cars are a bit like Korean cars were a few years ago and are improving rapidly.
The established automakers in Europe need to be careful, they let the Korean’s get a foothold. Now China is also coming for them and they will be able to produce an equivalent car at a lower price at every level, even after the 10% import tariff and that is a problem for the established brands.
Are you saying the Polestar 2 is also bad because it’s made in China?
Lots of people have the other MG EV and are perfectly happy about it. Sure it’s not going to cross shop with Audi but it isn't meant to. But it does cross shop with those targeting the more affordable end of the market.
Chinese cars are a bit like Korean cars were a few years ago and are improving rapidly.
The established automakers in Europe need to be careful, they let the Korean’s get a foothold. Now China is also coming for them and they will be able to produce an equivalent car at a lower price at every level, even after the 10% import tariff and that is a problem for the established brands.
Soldato
Nail, head!
My Korean Hyundai is amazeballs (IMO), and I'd rate it almost on par with my Merc for quality, but the warranty is better and the servicing is priced sensibly. Chinese built cars are going to have some serious market share in 5 years time. I foresee the suffering being the premium German brands, as they are far too slow on the uptake, in fact I doubt they'll all survive the impending doom they are facing.