Soldato
Lol, you'll never get one. It's the "my opinion is right and yours is wrong person".
When are you going fully electric?
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Lol, you'll never get one. It's the "my opinion is right and yours is wrong person".
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
Perhaps then it ought to be cheap.
Soldato
I was spending ~£180/month on petrol when I had my ICE before (doing 15k miles @ 35-40mpg), which is just over £10k in 5 years.
Some people don't have a choice?
It doesn't have to be worth £10k more, obviously no-one really knows what the depreciation is going to do, but unless they both end up at the same used value, you're not actually losing the whole £10k in depreciation.
E.g.
The ICE drops to £10k, cost = £5k
The EV drops to £15k, cost = £10k
The EV is only actually costing you £5k more
If the RRP is £25k then it’s pretty much the cheapest EV available, certainly of that size. So there are no other cheaper EV options. I.e. it is cheap
Caporegime
Ipace is arriving next Friday, great! Podpoint charger is going in end of November, not so great.....
Granny charging for 2 months.
Granny charging for 2 months.
That's not really very relevant when comparing two specific cars - the petrol MG and the EV version of the same car.
Unless your ICE was one of these MGs? Please don't tell me this entire thing has been based on your own spend in a totally different car doing above average annual mileage....
It's not cheap, it's expensive. The fact all the others are expensive doesn't really change the point, it probably enhances it.
At least with the other more expensive ones you get a half decent product - the Polestar looks excellent, we all know the Leaf is a decent option too, but MG?
Soldato
Where's the quoted 45mpg for the petrol MG? Is that real world or manufacturers made up figures? How are the fuel costs for 1 car doing 35-40mpg going to be any different to another car doing 35-40mpg?
And yes, I've already stated several times that this is based on my usage, is dependent on your mileage and how much you drive, and certainly won't apply to everyone. It seems you're unwilling to do the same.
Again missing the point.
Taking running costs into account, the TCO is similar to that of a £15k ICE.
For that kind of money you're looking at similar lower-end marques such as the Dacia Logan, as you've mentioned the ICE version of the MG, or I think you can just about squeeze a Fabia estate for that money.
I'm sure you wouldn't be seen dead in any of those options, but that doesn't hold true for everyone.
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25k is a lot of money for a ****** ecobox. The batteries dont justify it.
The leaf isn’t a good option in 2020 imo. Both its battery architecture and its charging connector were obsolete before it was even released. It’s too expensive compared to its competitors, doesn’t perform that well and it’s charging connector is seeing little investment in Europe compared to CCS.
Soldato
Yes,lol indeed.
You can't suggest that your way and your opinion are the only right one, right?
If someone has a total budget per year for travel expenses including fuel, and the cost of owning and running a vehicle how hard is it to grasp it doesn't matter which way you do it.
Car A
Petrol car cost £15k, and will be taken on a 60 month term with £3,000 deposit, and £12,000 on a loan at a typical rate of 4.0% APR, the cost per month is £220.61 for a total cost of £13,236.67 plus the £3,000 deposit, so £16,236.67 after five years. The cost of depreciation is between 60-70% so we'll call it 65%, leaving a car valued at £5,250 to which you make back that exact amount, total cost for vehicle was £10,986.67
5 years of fuel, using a 12,000 mile as an annual average and a fixed £1.20 per litre with 45MPG gives you a cost for 60,000 miles of £7,262.19. VED somewhere between £100-175 per year, so a middle ground of £137.50, or £687.50 in total, but we'll exclude servicing for this example. So the fuel and VED cost and average of £132.51.
Your cost per month to run your car is £220.61 plus £132.51 giving you a total of £353.12 per month.
The over all total is £10986.67 + £7,262.19 + £687.50, for a TCO of £18,936.36
Car B
EV equivalent costs £25k and will be taken on a 60 month term with £3,000 deposit, and £22,000 on a loan at a typical rate of 4.0% APR, the cost per month is £404.45, for a total cost of £24,267.23 plus the £3,000 deposit, so £27,267.23 after five years. The cost of depreciation is between 60-70% so we'll call it 65%, leaving a car valued at £8,750 to which you make back that exact amount, total cost for vehicle was £18,517.23
5 years of energy, using a 12,000 mile as an annual average and an average cost of 10p per kWh and a 4mpkWh average, gives you a cost for 60,000 miles of £1,500, we'll assume the zero VED stay in for at least 3 years, but may need to add £200 to the TCO at the end, the average cost of energy per month is therefore £25
Your cost per month to run your car is £404.45 plus £25 giving you a total of £429.45 per month.
The over all total is £18,517.23 + £1,500 + £200 (speculative VED), for a TCO of £20,217.23
Car B costs a total of £256.17 more per year to run, or £21.34 per month. If we bothered to took servicing into account it would be break even give or take £10, IMO.
So yes the BEV is more expensive, but you are trying to make it sound like the extra £10k upfront is making it massively different when in fact it isn't, and the Petrol car will likely be worth the approximate amount quoted but the BEV will likely retain more value as the prevalence and demand for EV's goes up and petrol goes down by 2025/26 second hand value will be reasonable.
Obviously if you were putting the difference per month of £76.33 * 60 into a 2% interest bond account, over the course of 5 years you'd have deposited £4,579.80 and have made a compound interest of £240.63, or an average of £4.01 per month interest over 5 years.
I have to say that is a very comprehensive and well argued response and not what I was expecting to get back 
It's very sensitive to things like projected residuals however and I suspect they'll influence things enough to push the balance further in favour of the ICE version of the car.
It's very sensitive to things like projected residuals however and I suspect they'll influence things enough to push the balance further in favour of the ICE version of the car.Because it's a stupid way to do it. You don't have an MG Petrol, therefore the consumption of your previous car is absolutely immaterial to the point at hand. The correct way to do it is exactly how Journey has just comprehensively replied.
When you're comparing Car A and Car B in a discussion like this, of which you own neither, you can't use your own experience of costs - you need to take expected average costs for the average purchaser.
Soldato
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For me, I only do about 3000 miles a year so an EV would be perfect. But for me it's far cheaper to run an older big guzzler, than stump up for a Leaf etc. I'd be the perfect candidate for one.
Soldato
Why? When I'm buying a car, I'm not buying it for Mr Average Purchaser, therefore their average expected costs are irrelevant to me; I'm buying a car for myself so it absolutely makes sense for me to use my own experience of costs.
Even keeping the 45mpg value, if I plug my mileage figures, electricity cost and drop the EV to a more realistic 3.6mpkw into what Journey has posted it makes the EV ~£1k cheaper over the 5 years.
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Because we're discussing the merits of the MG EV versus the ice version of the same car, not your personal car choices.
Which EV did you buy?
Soldato
Which is fair enough. But just because it isn't suitable for Mr Average, doesn't mean it isn't suitable for everyone.
I bought the 41kw Zoe, which based on the spreadsheet I made would have (vs the 2006 petrol Civic I had before) been somewhere between costing me ~£50/month or saving me ~£80/month depending on what it's worth when I replace it and what the hypothetical repair/replacement costs would have been for a 14 year old ICE doing 15k miles/year.
Of course, given the current situation and the fact we're now doing about 10 miles/week due to WFH and not being able to go anywhere, it turns out that it wasn't the best decision, and sticking to the 14 year old ICE would have been better, but then who could have predicted this?
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In journeys ownership equation, I'd add, against the ev:
- the Insurance cost, the earlier quoted £600 for a model3, versus £250 I pay on a 320i, OK - that offsets the 0%ved on the bev.
- The future 2nd hand bev values - with rapid evolution of the market, plus, concerns that battery longevity, whilst Tesla may have mastered it, does not necessarily hold true for other manufacturers, means, I'd use a PCP to mitigate the risk, albeit, having to then, mollycoddle, a car I don't own.
- the Insurance cost, the earlier quoted £600 for a model3, versus £250 I pay on a 320i, OK - that offsets the 0%ved on the bev.
- The future 2nd hand bev values - with rapid evolution of the market, plus, concerns that battery longevity, whilst Tesla may have mastered it, does not necessarily hold true for other manufacturers, means, I'd use a PCP to mitigate the risk, albeit, having to then, mollycoddle, a car I don't own.