When are you going fully electric?

[[TW]Fox]

The challenge isn't modern diesels its the EU4 and EU3 diesels that are the big particulate and NOx emitters

And they've completely ruined the demand for people replacing these old ones with new clean ones by demonising diesel. So instead people have hung into the old polluting examples as they don't want to risk a new diesel but don't want to give up the fuel efficiency they currently have.

I drove a new LCI 6 cylinder 5 series diesel with mild hybrid tech a few months ago. It was ultra smooth, very fast and super efficient. But I wouldn't want to risk putting my own money into one.

Nice one.

 

[vanpeebles]

I'm still playing Ivor the Engine in the disco

 

[WJA96]

And they've completely ruined the demand for people replacing these old ones with new clean ones by demonising diesel. So instead people have hung into the old polluting examples as they don't want to risk a new diesel but don't want to give up the fuel efficiency they currently have.

I drove a new LCI 6 cylinder 5 series diesel with mild hybrid tech a few months ago. It was ultra smooth, very fast and super efficient. But I wouldn't want to risk putting my own money into one.

Nice one.

The big buyers on diesels in the UK were always fleets and private buyers picked the used ones up at 2-4 years old. Now with the BIK on electrics being so sensationally good and the 100% write-off in year one on a new electric car purchase, the market has shifted to electric and it's going to stay there for the foreseeable future. So hopefully the folks who would have bought a 2-4 year old diesel will buy a 2-4 year old electric car instead.

 

[WJA96]

I'm still playing Ivor the Engine in the disco

It's the use of the word disco that ages you.

 

[[TW]Fox]

So hopefully the folks who would have bought a 2-4 year old diesel will buy a 2-4 year old electric car instead.

The trouble is that both these types of cars offer different things. One is silent, refined and convenient around town. The other is very fuel efficient and offers exceptional range.

I'd imagine diesel buyers to be among the last to swap to EV.

 

[WJA96]

I drove a new LCI 6 cylinder 5 series diesel with mild hybrid tech a few months ago. It was ultra smooth, very fast and super efficient. But I wouldn't want to risk putting my own money into one.

Surely if you had it on a PCP you'd know the residual value up front? I do get what you mean though. Diesel is dead and they'll be burying it soon. Which is a shame. The V8 4.0l diesel in the Audi SQ7 is just sublime.

 

[WJA96]

The other is very fuel efficient and offers exceptional range.

That's why I've ordered a Model S Plaid. Very fuel efficient and 510 miles on a charge.

 

[Jez]

That's why I've ordered a Model S Plaid. Very fuel efficient and 510 miles on a charge.

Prices are set to start from £130,980 in the UK, with pre-orders now being accepted. Deliveries are exptected to begin in late 2021.

£131k starting price is quite a price tag....i doubt that many buyers in this bracket were potential diesel customers anyway?

 

[[TW]Fox]

Surely if you had it on a PCP you'd know the residual value up front? I do get what you mean though. Diesel is dead and they'll be burying it soon. Which is a shame. The V8 4.0l diesel in the Audi SQ7 is just sublime.

I don't like PCP really.

The car was absolutely wonderful - 340bhp yet almost 50mpg over a 500 mile journey and no real engine noise in the cabin. I doubt we'll ever see a better diesel car made.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Prices are set to start from £130,980 in the UK, with pre-orders now being accepted. Deliveries are exptected to begin in late 2021.

£131k starting price is quite a price tag....i doubt that many buyers in this bracket were potential diesel customers anyway?

The whole idea of a fuel efficient £130,000 car is very amusing.

 

[WJA96]

Prices are set to start from £130,980 in the UK, with pre-orders now being accepted. Deliveries are exptected to begin in late 2021.

£131k starting price is quite a price tag....i doubt that many buyers in this bracket were potential diesel customers anyway?

You do realise that the diesel Bentley Bentayga still sells really well? And its quite reasonable on a low mileage PCP.

 

[WJA96]

I don't like PCP really.

I am aware of that. I'll take the handle out of your back now...

 

[vanpeebles]

It's the use of the word disco that ages you.

Gah!

 

[jpaul]

5 series mhev (mild hybrids in general) - you've got a 1-2Kwhr/couple-of-miles battery, for the transient additional power it can provide, versus a full hybrid, but, its
additional mechanical complexity and potential warranty calls, so I think these represent the least value for money(investing your own money),
just the manufacturers satiating the wltp/emissions tests;

maybe the additional manufacturing costs with that electric motor replacing the starter, and, integrated into auto transmission design is not enormous ?

 

[WJA96]

I didn't think mild hybrids could run on pure electric at all. I was under the impression the mild hybrid bit was an electric motor that helped out the main engine by filling out the torque curve and saves a bit of fuel by doing so. They usually also can use engine over-run to regenerate the battery which, as it's really small, doesn't need a lot of charging so they are extremely efficient.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I didn't think mild hybrids could run on pure electric at all. I was under the impression the mild hybrid bit was an electric motor that helped out the main engine by filling out the torque curve and saves a bit of fuel by doing so. They usually also can use engine over-run to regenerate the battery which, as it's really small, doesn't need a lot of charging so they are extremely efficient.

You are correct. The 5 Series MHEV has no ability to power itself on electricity alone.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

That’s why it’s called mild with the 48V... small amount of assist and charging efficiency (10-13kW) a much smoother starting too. next gen crank integrated motor generators (22kW) have more power to do low speed creep and some more assist rather than full jump to the 300V systems.

 

[jpaul]

next gen crank integrated motor generators (22kW) have more power

whose got those then ? yes, I thought they were all half that power.

My concern on the battery size was the endurance of it - both, if you had a commute with lots of stop start, and ... if yours isn't, I suppose you don't use additional ice HP to recharge it.

How much did/will RRP's go up with mhev introduction, and when's the payback point, considering road 'tax', & putting environment aside,
it's a bit like the VW heat pump issue, where, if range is not supercritical, an additional K for that, is a lot of electricity.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Mercedes and the next gen ZF gearbox. Thing it’s also supplementary ancillaries. Ie 48V compressor and water pump and then you get a belt less engine with much better management of the parasitic loads and engine warmup. EU7 and some of the China emissions want air injection and even cat heaters for emission compliance within seconds of startup - so having a 48V system to power those is much better than large bulky 12V parts. Mild electrification is part of a big jump in emissions improvement that goes way beyond the relatively simple torque assist systems.

 

[Kill_Phil]

Looks like the skoda enyaq has entered production so uk should start to see deliveries Q1 next year. Nice looking car imo!