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When are you going fully electric?

Discussion in 'Motors' started by Ricochet J, 23 Aug 2018.

  1. Simon

    Capodecina

    Joined: 21 Oct 2002

    Posts: 23,742

    Location: Berks / Moscow

    Sorry i was being sarcastic. My laptop is worth more than a nissan leaf battery :p
     
  2. WJA96

    Capodecina

    Joined: 13 Jul 2005

    Posts: 16,649

    Location: Norfolk, South Scotland

    Are you saying I have no chemical sympathy? Mechanical sympathy has nothing to do with it. This is a whole new thing and those batteries won't last forever. The warranty is for 8 years on most batteries. So anyone buying a car after say, year 5 of the car's life should know that the warranty is running out and pay for the car accordingly. As batteries become more and more mainstream, the cost of replacement will drop, as will the cost of new cars. And that will have a significant effect on used BEV values.

    I'm fully aware of the state of the BEV market at the moment and I wouldn't put my own money into a BEV at the moment but I'm happy to lease or even PCP a BEV so that the future value is taken into account at the beginning of the arrangement.
     
  3. Haggisman

    Capodecina

    Joined: 6 Oct 2004

    Posts: 13,866

    Location: Birmingham

    It's the same etiquette as not leaving your ICE car blocking a fuel pump while you spend 30 minutes in the mini Tesco doing your weekly shop.

    Yes you are perfectly within your rights to do so.
    Yes it does make you a ****.
    Yes, other drivers do have the right to "look down on you" for doing it.

    As WJA96 has already said, the last 10-20% (depending on the car) of charge takes almost as long as 0-80/90%, which means:

    You're wasting your own time - it would be quicker to charge to 80%, drive another X miles until you are back down to say 20%, and then charge back up to 80%.
    You're blocking a charger that other people can make better use of because they are on a lower battery % and so will charge quicker, and also need because they potentially don't have enough range to get anywhere.
    If the charger is priced/kw then you're taking revenue from the chargepoint provider by charging at ~7kw instead of the 50kw+ that one of the people waiting could be using.

    Of course there are probably some exceptional cases e.g. you need 100% to get to your destination and there are no other chargers en-route (although even in that case it would probably still be quicker to charge to 80% and drive 10% slower!), but most of the time, insisting to charging on 100% when there are other people waiting is just inconsiderate (by all means, waste as much time as you want at 3am when there's nobody else around :p).
     
  4. jpaul

    Capodecina

    Joined: 1 Mar 2010

    Posts: 12,974

    Commercial charging will soon need to have a cost related to duration of charge as well as quantity of energy,
    which may be an additional bonus of eg. paying for the higher rate VW charging options.
     
  5. WJA96

    Capodecina

    Joined: 13 Jul 2005

    Posts: 16,649

    Location: Norfolk, South Scotland

    It already has timers in that most fast chargers cut you off after 45 minutes or an hour and then you have to restart them. Depending on what charging card you are using that may include a 'standing charge" or 'start charge' of anything up to £3 to discourage people from just sitting on the charger all day.

    The only scenario I can see for charging to 100% on a public fast charger is if you're going somewhere like Lands End with no other chargers available en route where you would use 80% to get there and back so to do the trip and make it back with a bit to spare you need 100% charge to set off. Where I'm at home or a destination charger and I'm plugged-in all night then I always charge to 100% because why not? It's usually cheap or free anyway. And even if arrive at Tesco or McDonalds with 95% I'm still going to plug in because it's free and I firmly believe in ABC.
     
  6. [TW]Fox

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 156,865

    No it isn't, as in that scenario you're not using the fuelling infrastructure.
     
  7. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: 4 Aug 2007

    Posts: 11,763

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    Easy enough to influence the correct behaviour once needed

    x pence per minute and y pence per unit
    set x+y = current price per unit
    when charging at fast rates its the same as now, when charging at lower rates at the end the x becomes more significant
     
  8. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: 4 Aug 2007

    Posts: 11,763

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    But your doing the thing everyone wants to prevent which is blocking someone else from using the fueling infrastructure
     
  9. b0rn2sk8

    Soldato

    Joined: 9 Mar 2003

    Posts: 7,229

    This is why you need a mixture of different types of charge post pretty much everywhere. Fast DC as well as slower AC. The fast DC should hard cut off when it’s no longer putting out 7kw. If people want to charge up to 100% they can swap to the slower and cheaper AC charger. If they have plenty of time they can just use the AC cheaper charge-post for the entire charge.
     
  10. Desmo

    Soldato

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 6,587

    Location: Chillin' on the Boat

    I quite often drive to Wales and will stop at Membury on the way and charge up to 100% whilst stopping for lunch. Whilst I don't need 100% to get to my destination, it gives me loads more wiggle room and allows me to drive around without the need to charge whilst I'm there. If you need the 100%, even if it's only for convenience, then charge away as far as I'm concerned. Charging to 100% shouldn't be frowned upon as you don't know the users needs.
    But you're refuelling so using the service....not just blocking it.
     
  11. [TW]Fox

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 156,865

    Because you're using it.

    It's becoming clear why we need to ban petrol and diesel cars - electric too much of a nuisance to live with outside the enthusiast space...

    Now we find that if you charge your car too much you'll upset the other EV owners...
     
  12. Desmo

    Soldato

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 6,587

    Location: Chillin' on the Boat

    It's nothing like this. How about next time you refuel your ICE and there's a queue, you only fill up to half a tank and then move out of the way so other people can refuel quicker? I mean, do you need a full tank each time you stop?
     
  13. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: 4 Aug 2007

    Posts: 11,763

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    I see what you meant now, when I first read I assumed you meant it was ok to do the shop as your not actively using the pump.

    Where as you were saying its not ok but charging is ok. Just didn't read as that.

    We need to ban petrol and diesel for emissions its that simple, I don't see why its constant talk of other reasons when we know what the reasons are.
    Like I have said before imagine it was the other way round, no way in hell we would be considering it (switch from Ev to ICE). Some people don't like change, there will be net winners and losers, sux if your one of the losers but its going to happen whether people like it or not.
     
  14. Kenai

    Capodecina

    Joined: 5 Apr 2009

    Posts: 20,462

    I can see this becoming more of a problem, attitude wise, the more EV adoption increases - the early adopters who have gotten used to having free reign of the under utilised charging network and concocted bizarre 'etiquette rules' within their niche EV enthusiast circles will start to get aggravated with 'average joe' EV users as they increasingly find chargers being used and have to come to terms with the fact there are other people who want to use this infrastructure and want to use it to do what they need as they see fit, not in accordance with the 'etiquette'.
     
  15. nam

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 2,180

    Location: London

    or Buy a Tesla :D

     
  16. jpaul

    Capodecina

    Joined: 1 Mar 2010

    Posts: 12,974

    situation is analagous to broadband bandwidth/mobile phones, you pay more for higher potential bitrate, and total data used.

    ...even for Tesla bays, if they are all occupied do they have the powergrid to keep everyone at 125/150, or are they over-booking.
     
  17. WJA96

    Capodecina

    Joined: 13 Jul 2005

    Posts: 16,649

    Location: Norfolk, South Scotland

    Tesla drivers actually invented most of the currently used etiquette. The Tesla Owner's forum even has (or certainly had) a sticky dedicated to Supercharger Etiquette. And Tesla drivers get educated PDQ if they don't follow it in my experience. It's part of being a disciple of Electric Jebus.
     
  18. WJA96

    Capodecina

    Joined: 13 Jul 2005

    Posts: 16,649

    Location: Norfolk, South Scotland

    No, part of the acknowledged Tesla etiquette is you don't occupy a side-by-side bay if there is a pair of bays empty because both cars charging on a side-by-side bay charge at half-speed. A single car in a side-by-side charges at full speed.
     
  19. Neil777

    Hitman

    Joined: 20 May 2007

    Posts: 793

    Though apparently that's no longer an issue if you use a V3 supercharger.
     
  20. b0rn2sk8

    Soldato

    Joined: 9 Mar 2003

    Posts: 7,229

    While true, the vast majority are not V3.