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When are you going fully electric?

Discussion in 'Motors' started by Ricochet J, 23 Aug 2018.

  1. Neil777

    Hitman

    Joined: 20 May 2007

    Posts: 797

    True
     
  2. jpaul

    Capodecina

    Joined: 1 Mar 2010

    Posts: 13,022

    Tesla probably/should dynamically balance, if you are charging 80% plus, so, current limited, they distribute the charge to your bay neighbour,
    and, if you have to share, you have to be able to identify/park next to the 100% guy.
     
  3. Haggisman

    Capodecina

    Joined: 6 Oct 2004

    Posts: 13,870

    Location: Birmingham

    You're still using the petrol station facilities though, and you still need to go into the shop to pay (unless you use pay @ pump), so why not do a little more shopping whilst you're there? Saves having to go to the supermarket as well.

    I think you're doing something wrong if the second half of your tank takes 10 times longer to fill than the first? :confused:
     
  4. Neil777

    Hitman

    Joined: 20 May 2007

    Posts: 797

    It's those people that try to dribble the last possible drop of fuel.:D
     
  5. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: 4 Aug 2007

    Posts: 11,777

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    Totally agree, the early adopters "or cult members" will get a bit pissy when people go "eh?, nah" at some of the rules they dreamed up

    It goes both ways, many many years ago no one thought that typing in caps meant shouting, some moron obviously dreamed it up and its stuck
    I mean abbreviations are in CAPS so how would you shout SWAT for example, put it in bold as well? ;)
     
  6. DanTheMan

    Mobster

    Joined: 11 Oct 2005

    Posts: 4,323

    Location: Manchester, UK

    I'm seriously considering an electric car, mainly for the refinement around town and trying to future proof the ability to drive around major cities, however I've worked out home charging would cover 95%+ of my journeys.

    How often do people realistically need to charge anywhere other than at home?
     
  7. Howard

    Capodecina

    Joined: 12 Jul 2007

    Posts: 16,112

    Location: South East

    Are EV owners really looking down on other EV owners who want to use the charging infrastructure to charge their car to 100%?! Imagine if the internal combustion engine luddites with their large fuel tanks got moaned at because they wanted to fill up all 90 litres of it at a busy petrol station. How preposterous.

    I've been popping in and out of this thread, and it's becoming increasingly clear to me that the EV "enthusiasts" are desperately trying to convince everyone that it's currently the way forward for all, despite there being clear drawbacks. A single charging station at one location being one large example.
     
  8. [TW]Fox

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 156,901

    This petrol tech does seem super convenient it has to be said.
     
  9. vanpeebles

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 22 Aug 2004

    Posts: 7,603

    :D
     
  10. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: 4 Aug 2007

    Posts: 11,777

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    Arguably for most people who can charge at home/work, home/work charging is far more convenient
    For those that can't then ICE is going to be far more convenient

    When I switched from diesel to petrol I had to start filling weekly at the weekend, or going out of my way mid week, or paying for fuel at a smaller and more expensive station
    I find filling with fuel awful personally
    If I could have someone seemlessly delivery my fuel to my house so I could top up daily without having to wait or cling on to a freezing handle for 4 minutes in the cold that sounds perfect ;)
     
  11. Haggisman

    Capodecina

    Joined: 6 Oct 2004

    Posts: 13,870

    Location: Birmingham

    That would be a great analogy if filling up the last 10% of your petrol tank took 30 minutes. But it doesn't.

    As I posted above, outside of an extremely limited number of cases, there is literally no benefit to charging to 100%*, but plenty of downsides. It's not like the "cult members" all got together and decided that you should only charge to 80% "just because" - there is actually a very valid reason for it. :p

    Hopefully charging infrastructure and battery tech will move on, and this will become a thing of the past.

    I couldn't disagree more. Being able to "fill" the car from the house in 30 seconds is far more convenient than having to make a special trip/detour to a petrol station, wait for ages for a free pump, stand there in the cold for several minutes holding a grotty pump handle covered in countless people's urine, poo, snot and who knows what else, whilst inhaling chemical fumes, and then mess around with the slowest card reader ever invented so I can finally pay.



    * yes it should be done occasionally to balance the cells, but outside of that it's pretty much pointless
     
    Last edited: 2 Dec 2020
  12. [TW]Fox

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 156,901

    That's another weirdly British thing. In the United States, or Germany, or any number of other countries, you can flip the catch on the pump and sit in your warm car.
     
  13. Desmo

    Soldato

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 6,588

    Location: Chillin' on the Boat

    The older chargers were split in to 4x30kW units. On your own, you'd get the full 120kW available. If somebody else joined, depending on different battery states, they might "steal" 1 or 2 of the 30kW units.
    Surely it's just down to how long you're taking to refuel? Doesn't matter if one part is slower or not. If you're in the way of somebody else then you're in the way. So do you get out of the way refuelling ICE when you've got enough for your current journey?
     
  14. Journey

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 8,960

    Location: West Midlands

    This thread is somewhat cyclical, you can predict the topics that will be brought up again, and again, as much as you can predict the order of the seasons.

    If people want to waste their time/money let them, I mean who can tell another person what to do with their time, even if you know they are wasting it. It's like arguing with an idiot though, pointless as they'll always win in their own head.
     
  15. Desmo

    Soldato

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 6,588

    Location: Chillin' on the Boat

    Obviously this varies hugely per person, but for me, public charging is about 4-5 times a year. Everything else is done at home.
     
  16. Haggisman

    Capodecina

    Joined: 6 Oct 2004

    Posts: 13,870

    Location: Birmingham

    I'm afraid you're missing the point completely, and your comparison doesn't work because a fuel tank fills at a constant rate.

    In an ICE, which takes ~4 minutes to fill the tank, on a journey which needs 100% of the tank, it doesn't matter whether I fill 100% (4 minutes) then drive 4 hours, or I fill 50% (2 minutes), drive for 2 hours, then fill the other 50% (2 minutes) and drive for 2 hours, the filling time & journey time remains the same.

    In an EV which takes ~1 hour to charge to 100% and I need 160% of the battery for my journey

    If I fill 80% in 30 minutes, drive 2 hours, fill 80% in 30 minutes, drive 2 hours: total time spent charging = 1 hour, journey time 5 hours
    If I fill to 100% in 1 hour, driver 3 hours, fill 60% in 22.5 minutes, drive 2 hours: total time spent charging = 1 hour 22.5 minutes, journey time 5 hours 22.5 minutes

    In the second scenario, you are both wasting 22.5 minutes of your time, and "blocking" a charger for 30% longer.

    If you're happy charging at a slower rate, then why not just use a slower charger and leave the faster ones for people who actually want to get on with their journey?

    A better ICE analogy would be in a petrol station which has fast (5L/second) and slow (1L/second) pumps, and you decide to use the fast pump, but only hold the trigger down a fraction so it pumps at 1L/second. Sure, you're perfectly entitled to do so, but it's a bit of a **** move when there's a queue of people behind you who want to fill at 5L/second.
     
  17. Desmo

    Soldato

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 6,588

    Location: Chillin' on the Boat

    I'm not missing the point because I'm not comparing fuelling rates, just the time you're spending using the refuelling device, whatever it may be.
    And I don't need educating on the best way to refuel an EV :)


    Yes, I'm being a bit devil's advocate and pedantic, in that an ICE car doesn't actually take all that long to refuel. But you're still in the way of somebody else who wants to refuel and carry on their journey (Assuming there's a queue) so do you move out of the way when you have enough? Or do you waste THEIR time by choosing to brim your tank? And as ICE fuel is so quick and easy to come by, surely it doesn't need brimming each time :D
     
  18. Haggisman

    Capodecina

    Joined: 6 Oct 2004

    Posts: 13,870

    Location: Birmingham

    Fuel rates and the time spent using the refuelling device are inversely proportional - you can't compare one without taking into account the other.

    Sorry, but I still don't get your argument, what do you class as "enough"? You're treating each journey in isolation, which is unrealistic - unless you are about to sell/crash/set fire to the car, the fuel you put in is going to get used. It doesn't matter if you use half a tank for journey A today, and half a tank for journey B tomorrow, you still need a full tank, so the filling time is going to be the same, regardless of whether you fill 100% before journey A (taking 4 minutes), or 50% before journey A(2 minutes) and 50% before journey B (2 minutes) (a total of 4 minutes). You're still "blocking" a refuelling device for the same amount of time. in fact, arguably it's actually more time efficient to fill to 100% every time, since that means you only have to pay once (e.g. if that takes 1 minute then a 1x 100% fill takes 5 minutes, 2x 50% fill takes 6 minutes total).
     
  19. Desmo

    Soldato

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 6,588

    Location: Chillin' on the Boat

    Exactly the same for an EV :)

    I just thought the original point was about EV's not charging to 100% because they blocked the refuelling device, even though an ICE car does exactly the same thing. And yes, I'm being a bit pedantic in that the ICE can refuel quicker, but you'll still choose to spend more time at the pump than necessary for your next journey, possibly getting in somebody else's way.

    You don't need to keep coming up with lots of maths and breaking down journeys and refuelling times. Just say you're happy to spend more time brimming your tank and delaying somebody else even though you didn't need the fuel to finish your journey. What's good for the goose is good for the gander :D
     
  20. Haggisman

    Capodecina

    Joined: 6 Oct 2004

    Posts: 13,870

    Location: Birmingham

    It's not though, and I explained why in post 5072...

    Well, it's worth explaining it because a lot of people don't realise that EV charge rate slows down significantly when you get close to 100%, so you might be doing them a favour.

    They no longer sit around for hours unnecessarily, wonder why it's taking so long for their 50kw charging car to charge (when it's actually only charging at less than half of that).

    You aren't waiting as long for them to finish charging.

    Everyone wins.

    Of course some people don't want to listen to explanations, because what they've decided is how it is, regardless of the actual facts :D
     
    Last edited: 2 Dec 2020