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When are you going fully electric?

Discussion in 'Motors' started by Ricochet J, 23 Aug 2018.

  1. Desmo

    Soldato

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 6,588

    Location: Chillin' on the Boat

    I'm not worried about or comparing refuelling times or rates, just how much time I'm inconveniencing other people when there's no need which is what the original point was, that EV's shouldn't charge to 100% because it hogs a charger from somebody else.
     
  2. Kenai

    Capodecina

    Joined: 5 Apr 2009

    Posts: 20,526

    Lets not forget the discussion started not from an educational point of view, that someone might not know and can be helped out - it started from a comment that implied the very behaviour of wanting to charge to 100% is rude.

    "I sat watching an Audi eTron charging up at a fast charger all the way up to 100% (gotta Love Audi drivers EV etiquette)."
     
  3. SDK^

    Capodecina

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 19,150

    Most EV public chargers have an overstay fee of £10 per hour after 90 minutes
     
  4. Haggisman

    Capodecina

    Joined: 6 Oct 2004

    Posts: 13,874

    Location: Birmingham

    No. EVs shouldn't charge to 100% because it takes twice as long as charging to 80%, which means for any given requirement over 80%, it is quicker to repeatedly charge to 80% than to 100%

    You're still making the mistake of treating every journey as a distinct entity, rather than looking at the overall picture.

    Say you need to drive 800 miles/week, and you can do 100 miles on a charge

    You can either charge 8x to 100% or 10x to 80%

    Charging 8x to 100% = 8x1hour = 8 hours
    Charging 10x to 80 = 10x 30 mins = 5 hours

    Assuming public charging with people waiting each time, by choosing to charge to 100% instead of 80%, you are inconveniencing other people by an extra 3 hours/week

    It's possible to be rude (or at least seen as such) unintentionally :)
     
  5. WJA96

    Capodecina

    Joined: 13 Jul 2005

    Posts: 16,679

    Location: Norfolk, South Scotland

    And it is rude if someone is waiting. Just like people first had motor cars they had a certain degree of camaraderie and they’d help each other out. Indeed, even when my dad started driving in the early 1950s, if you saw someone broken down you would stop and offer to help. Nowadays people won’t even move over or slow down when they see an AA or RAC person trying to change a tyre or something on the hard shoulder of the motorway. We’ve turned into a right bunch of ******** in our cars.

    I’m making no claims for BEV drivers being any different, but the common purpose that did exist before the tax breaks did encourage a slightly eco-club aspect to the ownership demographic and I don’t see anything wrong in being courteous although I’ve been laughed at before on these forums for being nice to other charger users.
     
  6. Haggisman

    Capodecina

    Joined: 6 Oct 2004

    Posts: 13,874

    Location: Birmingham

    Welcome to modern day England, where if you don't act like a **** you must be either stupid or foreign :)

    (I'm only half foreign :()
     
  7. Desmo

    Soldato

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 6,588

    Location: Chillin' on the Boat

    I can't be bothered any more, we're just going around in circles and I think coming at this from different perspectives. I can't be bothered to try and explain my side any more as I'm really not that worried :)
    I've been driving an EV for the last three years, I don't need help explaining charge times or what is more efficient as that's not really the point I was making.
     
  8. Haggisman

    Capodecina

    Joined: 6 Oct 2004

    Posts: 13,874

    Location: Birmingham

    The point you were making is that an ICE has the same refuelling speed curve as an EV, which is just plain wrong. That's possibly not the one you were trying to make, but that's what came across :p
     
  9. Kenai

    Capodecina

    Joined: 5 Apr 2009

    Posts: 20,526

    So if charging my hypothetical EV to 100% (which I may need to) is rude, what is the accepted etiquette? I get to 80%, unplug, let someone else go while I wait for them to spend 30 minutes doing their 20%-80% and then i'm allowed another go to get my last 20%?
     
  10. Basher

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 8,408

    I guess the rationale is that 80% is enough to get you home, and you should charge it up there. Doesn't really work if you can't charge at home, though.
     
  11. Jonnycoupe

    Capodecina

    Joined: 19 Oct 2002

    Posts: 13,005

    Location: N.Warks

    Other than not having it at home
     
  12. Haggisman

    Capodecina

    Joined: 6 Oct 2004

    Posts: 13,874

    Location: Birmingham

    Why would you want to do that?

    If you really need that last 20%, then no, by all means carry on until you have enough charge to get to wherever it is you're going that has no other chargers en route.

    The point I and a couple of other posters were making is that it's almost always more time efficient to charge to 80%, continue your journey, and charge again (to 80%) when you get to ~20%
     
  13. SDK^

    Capodecina

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 19,150

    I'm with Haggisman - charging over 80% on a public EV charger is pointless and doesn't make sense, due to the added time to finish the last 20%. You should charge up to 80% and if you that doesn't get you home, or you need more, then stop at another charger further along your route.
    Doing this benefits everyone, but yourself more :)
     
  14. Kenai

    Capodecina

    Joined: 5 Apr 2009

    Posts: 20,526

    Well because the point being made was that it's poor etiquette / rude to charge to 100%, especially so if someone is waiting, so I was asking what is the accepted etiquette to charge to 100% without people sitting there silently judging you for your rudeness.

    Pointless is one thing, circumstance dependent. Rude in and of itself is another IMO.
     
  15. [TW]Fox

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 156,916

    Presumably your remark here is supposed to imply that there will obviously be other chargers en route. So in reality then you expect what, MULTIPLE charge ups on a journey? So stop charging before its full, and drive on to another charger? :D
     
  16. Desmo

    Soldato

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 6,588

    Location: Chillin' on the Boat

    Wow....not quite sure where the speed curve came in to it....I don't think I even went there inadvertently :D
     
  17. SDK^

    Capodecina

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 19,150

    Unless you're driving through North Devon, Mid Wales or North of Dundee it's highly likely there be multiple, available and working chargers on your route.

    80% is very often 150+ miles of range so shouldn't be an issue even in those locations.
     
  18. Haggisman

    Capodecina

    Joined: 6 Oct 2004

    Posts: 13,874

    Location: Birmingham

    Exactly :)

    Now whilst the infrastructure is still in its infancy, there are obviously going to be routes where this isn't feasible, but that's becoming less of an issue as time goes by and more chargers are being installed.

    As I said before, you can be perceived as rude unintentionally.

    If you've only just got your EV, the salesman was crap, and didn't explain charging speeds, you might be sat there naively thinking you should just charge to 100%, because why not? It's what you did in your old petrol car.

    That's not rude, but might be perceived as such. Although then you could argue that the person assuming you're being rude is actually the one being rude by making that assumption, and so on :p

    Ultimately it comes down to everyone having a bit more consideration for each other; don't charge to 100% when someone else is waiting unless you actually need it and dont assume someone else who is charging to 100% is being a **** for the sake of it, strike up a polite conversation with them, they might not realise their charging slows right down at the end, you might find out they're driving into the middle of nowhere and there are no chargers around.

    Maybe they'll thank you, in which case high fives all round, maybe they'll tell you to **** off, in which case sure, feel free to think they're rude :)
     
    Last edited: 2 Dec 2020
  19. Kenai

    Capodecina

    Joined: 5 Apr 2009

    Posts: 20,526

    Which is all lovely but still doesn't explain what the etiquette is to avoid being perceived as rude if you need to charge to 100%?

    Do I perhaps need to go and explain myself to make sure the other person knows why I might need 100% before they just assume i'm being an idiot / rude for not unplugging at 80%? Put up a little sign in the car window?

    I just find it odd the readiness with which people are keen to dish out the judgement on someone else without any idea why they might need to be charging to 100%.
     
  20. Bug One

    Capodecina

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 10,637

    Location: Sandwich, Kent

    No, it's just some narrative that Fox made up to drum up his post count and rally up the anti EVers.

    My point was that I noticed it didn't slow down when it got over 90% - and I wondered what effect that would have on the long term battery health. Based on someone saying that VAG ev's had software issues - I wondered if this might be something they change in an update, to help protect the long term life of the battery.