1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

When are you going fully electric?

Discussion in 'Motors' started by Ricochet J, 23 Aug 2018.

  1. inflames

    Hitman

    Joined: 15 Oct 2016

    Posts: 899

    Been a while sense Iv been on this thread, Iv been able to test a lot of EV cars at work in the last year. I must admit I do see the appeal and think they will make a great city if you have the ability to charge your at home. But I won’t be jumping to EV anytime soon, my next car will be a dirty diesel.
     
  2. jamoor

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 22 Jun 2005

    Posts: 8,822

    Location: Nottinghamshire

    This is wrong, EVs are in every single measure simpler and by design more reliable than an ICE counterpart.

    IMO evs don't need banning, the market will naturally eliminate them in the coming decade as people won't want them, they just need to be given the experience of a new way of doing things.

    The same types of people were saying that cars have become too complex when EFI came around.

    An EV is superior to an ICE in every way bar one - refuelling speed, which people that buy them can do at home, and if cars become self driving which is seeminly becoming more likely then they can go and charge themselves when you aren't driving.

    This will also lead us into the realms of robotaxis, which is perfect for most car owners - your car can make money for your while you aren't using it, and it won't cause more wear on the drivetrain.
     
  3. jpaul

    Capodecina

    Joined: 1 Mar 2010

    Posts: 13,035

  4. Jonnycoupe

    Capodecina

    Joined: 19 Oct 2002

    Posts: 13,003

    Location: N.Warks

    Or it’s a government funded project that allows some good research and pays a fair few salaries whilst the project runs...
     
  5. lordrobs

    Capodecina

    Joined: 30 Sep 2003

    Posts: 14,940

    Location: Norwich

    As someone who thinks EVs are a very good thing for a huge number of people I absolutely agree with your viewpoint.

    I started watching that gridserve video and straight away something grabbed my attention "you won't need to worry about whether a charger is available, theres 36 of them". Now I'm not knocking the facility, it looks awesome, but if the concept is that you'll just charge every time you need to stop for foor, drink, whatever then you'll need what? Four of these for every traditional services. Maybe more based on my experience of the motorway services around the UK.

    ICE is highly efficient at a 70mph cruise, electric is perfect around built up areas and in stop start traffic. If you do both then a plug in hybrid with decent range just makes sense doesn't it? If the average driver covers 20 odd miles a day then 30 miles of EV and a range extender covers all eventualities. Im probably an ideal case in point. 22 mile daily commute and work away from the office once or twice a week possibly on the other side of the country. Plug in hybrid would have me running on electric only 5 days a week, yet covering 25k a year! If you are one of the many drivers out there who never do long trips then a suitable range EV and home charging is the answer with an occasional public charge once in a blue moon.

    The other problem with forcing a deadline is that it may drive us down a road which then ends being another LPG scenario. What if Hydrogen ends up being the fuel car manufacturers settle on for longer range in 2035 but we've gone all in on a charging infrastructure to cover our motorway network? Also on infrastructure, to get a phase shift of adoption they are going to have to replicate that gridserve station hundreds of times across the road network, where will the money come from in a post covid economy?
     
  6. b0rn2sk8

    Soldato

    Joined: 9 Mar 2003

    Posts: 7,260

    I just can't see hydrogen ever being the 'fuel for the future' for everyone or the manufactures even going full hydrogen now that BEV's are gaining traction. I can see there being a mixed market which includes hydrogen, specifically for those which a BEV doesn't work for. But given that BEV's are already cheaper and easier to build and significantly cheaper to fuel compared to a hydrogen, I can't see hydrogen suddenly taking over for the majority of people.

    The real issue is that the legacy automakers are making cars only to comply with the legislation instead of driving the market forward. I'm not just referring to BEV's here, the same is very much true of ICE too. Someone has to call time on ICE at some point and they can't keep using the 'its too difficult' excuse anymore because it just isn't. Other companies have proven its possible to produce a BEV which is incredibly efficient, has good range and charges quickly and are very popular. Instead of throwing millions or billions on lobbying to stop it, why not spend that energy actually making a more sustainable product.
     
  7. OllyM

    Soldato

    Joined: 16 Aug 2004

    Posts: 6,214

    Location: New Jersey, USA

    Unfortunately people are very resistant to change so will argue endlessly that the world will end if ICE vehicles can't be sold any more.

    I expect there was a similar reaction when leaded fuel was phased out.
     
  8. Fusion

    Capodecina

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 10,569

    Location: Notts

    Charge speed seems to be one of the biggest concerns for some. Aren’t we quickly on the way to lessening this concern though with 800v and 350kW? So effectively you’re getting a 75/80% charge in ~15 mins. Still slower than ICE, but acceptable for a lot more people.

    Are we likely to see voltages and charge speeds increase even further in future? Already 1/1.2MW are being discussed/developed for trucks and the like.
     
  9. Joe T

    Capodecina

    Joined: 1 Apr 2003

    Posts: 11,706

    Location: Northampton

    Remember, EV covers both BEV and FCEV (and for a time PHEV). In the long term. there's no reason to continue with ICE with these technologies available. Other EV technologies may also be invented or developed. FCEV will likely be implemented rapidly for HGV and other similar applications, where BEV tech might not work. BEV will continue to improve with higher voltages, faster charging, higher capacities etc. There's no reason that we need to continue using ICE over electric motors (however the electricity is stored and transported).

    The problem with letting consumers lead the way (as I already explained) is that it does not fix the negative externalities. We simply cannot continue living the way we are. We need to travel less, and when we do we need to have minimum impact on the environment. A little bit of inconvenience is nothing compared with how important it is that this kind of change happens. If you think otherwise, you're in for a big shock in the next 10-20 years. A big shock.

    This is where if you actually lived with an EV (perhaps swap your Mini for the EV version?) you'd see that there are far far more advantages to the driver than you've listed here. In fact, if your post reflects your full understanding then you really havent been paying attention. The alternative is that you're simply anti-EV, but you keep saying you're not. But then you post stuff like this. Confusing to say the least.
     
  10. [TW]Fox

    Man of Honour

    Joined: 17 Oct 2002

    Posts: 156,909

    I really want to do this. I too am attracted by the interest of new tech and the Mini barely does more than 100 miles in one go so the range is a total. On issue. If we ever need more range id rather use the other car anyway. I'd love an electric one. It's just hard to justify though as the current Mini is a 2018 we specified ourselves and the annual cost if we dumped it now would be comical unfortunately.

    I think I've rationalised that rather than another car from the same generation we'll go for one of the first of the next gen Mini electric. Provided BMW don't ruin it, which is a real chance given current efforts.

    I like EV, but I also like ICE too. That's the issue for me. The EV fanboys act like it's absolutely perfect and talk away any downside and this is frustrating. I'm happy to talk about the shortcomings of ICE engines without pretending they don't matter but few EV advocates are prepared to do the same.
     
  11. Adam-r

    Gangster

    Joined: 20 Mar 2015

    Posts: 371

    Location: North

    Cycling and active travel is the way forward. :)
     
  12. Joe T

    Capodecina

    Joined: 1 Apr 2003

    Posts: 11,706

    Location: Northampton

    Dont worry about the EV fanboys - there's no point in repeating the same arguments again and again (as in this thread). Resist. :)
     
  13. vanpeebles

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 22 Aug 2004

    Posts: 7,603

    Or going back to horses lol. EV's will not save the world. Getting people to work from home is far better.
     
  14. lordrobs

    Capodecina

    Joined: 30 Sep 2003

    Posts: 14,940

    Location: Norwich

    Its funny seeing the difference between my employer and that of my wife. My job probably makes more sense to do from home when I'm not on site with our customers and I demonstrated that during lockdown 1. But because one guy swung the lead for 2 months and they are worried it might upset the production team the company policy is everyone must work from the office.

    My wife on the other hand has been provided additional IT equipment and gets regular remote audits to ensure she has everything she needs. They've now been told to expect flexible working from next year cutting her time in the office to around 1 day a week when they do finally go back.

    Ultimately less cars on the road is better whether they are ICE or EV.
     
  15. Fusion

    Capodecina

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 10,569

    Location: Notts

    What journeys do you have in mind when you say this?
     
  16. johnny6

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 14 Apr 2006

    Posts: 2,168

    The obvious candidates are communicating and very short journeys.

    2020 has shown that more people can work from home. Let’s see how many businesses keep this as an option going into 2021 and beyond.

    Also people need to stop being lazy (and I include myself in this) and walk more, rather than taking the car for very short journeys. My example of laziness is driving to the local pharmacy for prescriptions. I could walk to the pharmacy within 10 minutes but inevitability I drive because I’m lazy and there is a free car park next to the pharmacy.
     
  17. lordrobs

    Capodecina

    Joined: 30 Sep 2003

    Posts: 14,940

    Location: Norwich

    To be honest I do thousands of unnecessary miles a year. Trips to the North Norfolk coast, sometimes both days of a weekend at up to 60 to 90 miles per round trip. Days out mountain biking, weekends away, driving to the fifth closest supermarket because I prefer it etc.

    Modern motoring is cheap and convenient, we are just all so used to it we take it for granted. Will i feel any less guilty lugging around a chunk of lithium unethically mined from some developing country than I do burning a finite resource and the associated emissions it produces? Lesser of two evils maybe...
     
  18. jpaul

    Capodecina

    Joined: 1 Mar 2010

    Posts: 13,035

    Airline travels the one to reduce ? I liked the idea of a personal tradeable road/carbon budget which could include planes too.

    I've still got a problem that they have limited the battery size to provide just the range the legislation requires,
    and, although the often discussed average commute is low , for those that can afford an phev/bev, if our works is anything to go by, its 50mile round trip, and, everyone can't use the chargers.
    (other phev reservations : extra maintenace with 2 trains, and price point which will swap with bev's with just a little more battery price reduction )
     
  19. lordrobs

    Capodecina

    Joined: 30 Sep 2003

    Posts: 14,940

    Location: Norwich

    50 mile commute assuming no need for business miles on top or weekly long trips sounds perfect for an EV in that case.

    Even 30 miles of EV range deployed at the right times on a 50 mile commute would have massive environmental benefits. Get onto the motorway / NSL A roads and fire up the ICE, you could still have zero exhaust emissions in the built up areas and during the highly inefficient stop start bits.
     
  20. b0rn2sk8

    Soldato

    Joined: 9 Mar 2003

    Posts: 7,260

    The issue with PHEV's is that people just don't know how to use them properly. People just leave them in auto mode and let the ICE kick in whenever it likes and get home with loads of charge left in the battery. They then subsequently complain that they don't get the MPG. You then also have the group who just use them as a company car tax dodge and don't even bother to plug them in. To get the most out of them you really need to work the driving modes for your individual journeys, that's fine for a certain type of customer but not your average buyer who just wants to turn the car on and drive it.

    There is certainly going to have to be a lot of re-education for both BEV's and PHEV's alike but for different reasons.