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When are you going fully electric?

Discussion in 'Motors' started by Ricochet J, 23 Aug 2018.

  1. SDK^

    Capodecina

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 19,267

    I also understand there are limited orders available for the good deals, so you need to quick and/or lucky to secure those.
     
  2. Kill_Phil

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 11 Feb 2010

    Posts: 1,722

    Location: England

    I'm guessing the person in question is at the top end of a the higher tax rate bracket, so that it off sets tax and pension contribution/penalties.

    Had looked into for the wife but simply couldn't justify the hit to the pension. I think for a £50 pension reduction per month equated to £600 pa lost in pension (based in 3 year lease), so let's say 9.5k if you make it to ripe old age of 82. It's probably OK for 1 or 2 one off leases but long term simply not worth it
     
  3. GinG

    Soldato

    Joined: 22 Jul 2006

    Posts: 7,383

    How did you work out the cost difference? Are you saying that every time you take out a 3 year lease in this scheme will affect the pension by £600 each time? Therefore if the wife works a further 20 years and we get 7 cars this would cost affect the pension by £4200 per annum?!

    On the flip side though how much would leasing a car the other way cost you in lost income. Swings and roundabouts.
     
  4. b0rn2sk8

    Soldato

    Joined: 9 Mar 2003

    Posts: 7,449

    I’m not in the NHS but if it works anything like other public sector pensions, it is based on your career average salary and doesn’t have a ‘traditional pension pot’. I’m sure @Kill_Phil will correct me if I am wrong.

    By sacrificing your salary you also reduce the amount they use to calculate how much pension you earn that year too.


    As @Kill_Phil said, over a number of years that will really add up. Perhaps not so much for those hitting the lifetime cap but it will for those lower down the ranks.

    The way to work it out is find out what % they apply to your salary to calculate what your pension will be for the year (this isn’t normally the same as what they deduct each month), and apply it to the difference between your normal and reduced salary. That will tell you how much less pension you’ll get for that year. Gross that up over a number of years and you’ll start seeing the total impact.
     
    Last edited: 24 Feb 2021
  5. Kill_Phil

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 11 Feb 2010

    Posts: 1,722

    Location: England

    @GinG as @b0rn2sk8 has said the NHS is based on career average earnings; dont forget whilst the scheme reduces the amount you pay into the NHS pot, you're also losing the employer contribution. But yes depending on salary and the vehicle you get it adds up fairly quickly if you get sucked into the scheme long term; we were close to pushing the button as there are some fantastic deals to be had on EVs with the BIK.

    There is the argument to be had for live for the moment as who knows how long you have on this planet :p but if you live 15 years after pension retirement age those 7 cars could have cost you in the region of £60k **ouch**

    I think its certainly worthwhile considering short term but good to know what your signing up for; the employer wasn't very forthcoming with the financial impact. This is what I noted on how to calculate

    Take the gross salary sacrifice figure per month (top line on the quote), x12 for yearly cost. Divide by 54 and its the annual reduction in pension per year of the lease. Then don't forget to add the guaranteed 1.5% above inflation growth; so x the figure by roughly 1.45
     
  6. GinG

    Soldato

    Joined: 22 Jul 2006

    Posts: 7,383

    Thank you both.

    Not too bothered on the short term but will deffinately look into it a bit more longer term, although based on your calculations the total gross cost per year is £5760 / 54 = £106.

    Sort term isn't too bad but then I guess over a 20 year period reduces pension by around £2k per year so retire at 55 and die at 85 is 30 years of taking 2k less add in the increases will be around £80k.

    I mean in that time frame you could lose similar amounts on car depreciation so I guess swings and roundabouts?
     
  7. Kill_Phil

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 11 Feb 2010

    Posts: 1,722

    Location: England

    Yeah by all means I'm no financial advisor so worth looking into it properly long term! And yes depreciation you need to look at too but don't forget similar lease details albeit minus maintenance and insurance can be had for around 300 on the id3
     
  8. GinG

    Soldato

    Joined: 22 Jul 2006

    Posts: 7,383

    I think it is very much swings and roundabouts to be honest.

    I'm very much happy to live in the moment, with my wife working in end of life care and myself in the emergency services you see how lives can just change in a blink of an eye.

    We could die tomorrow... Although I wouldn't have the car atleast I know what it could have been... If I live till I'm 85 I'll be cursing us getting the damn car! :D
     
  9. Kill_Phil

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 11 Feb 2010

    Posts: 1,722

    Location: England

    Yeah exactly, I've not got too dissimilar mindset! Enjoy the car, they've had a few teething issues but look great overall. I really want the id4 but may wait 2/3 years for some to hit the second hand market
     
  10. GinG

    Soldato

    Joined: 22 Jul 2006

    Posts: 7,383

    Yeah a mate of ours has one, he hopes that all the software gremlins will be fixed in the March update.

    He loves the car though so looking forwsrd to taking delivery.
     
  11. SDK^

    Capodecina

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 19,267

    An interesting video on Lucid Motors.
    I posted about a month ago how it appeared they were over promising. This guy really calls them out and it doesn’t look good for perspective buyers and investors.

     
  12. WJA96

    Capodecina

    Joined: 13 Jul 2005

    Posts: 16,943

    Location: Norfolk, South Scotland

    If you go back 7-10 years there are LOTS of similar videos about Tesla. Indeed, John Cadogan’s AutoExpert channel is still regularly posting similar videos about Tesla Motors and how Tesla isn’t in great financial shape and will soon collapse. There is massive money to be made pushing these stocks up and down.

    And then you have to look at who is making this video. He’s a high priest in the cult of Electric Jesus and he’s telling you that other religions are bad. And they especially don’t like the Lucidites because they used to be Teslarati and then they split off into a new cult that no longer saw Elon as the saviour.... etc. Etc. Etc.

    Any time you place an order for a new product you generally have to put some money on the line. Hyundai just relieved 3000 European customers of £1000 deposits for Ioniq 5’s. When will they arrive? No-one knows. Lucids are clearly a more risky investment but still, the people who have put deposits down will not lose money because the deposits are supposedly in Escrow.

    So really you have a choice - believe the preachings of the cult or do your own research. The truth is probably there somewhere. My guess is that Tesla got there first and they have just enough of a technology lead over conventional car companies that they will survive a while longer. Lucid are possibly too late to the game. And of course, it’s the Chinese manufacturers that everyone should really be watching.
     
  13. Journey

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 9,384

    Location: West Midlands

    Had my first Zap-Home user come by to use my charger today, it's set to free vend so I expected it sooner.
    The lady who used it needed to charge her Leaf as she was covering a shift for another care worker and had 3 calls to do within walking distance, so could leave it for almost 2 hours, enough to cover the rest of her day and get her home with % to spare. She's never used it before but was told about it by another colleague, and said that she should be prepare to pay a rate of 15ppkWh or more, so was very grateful to find out it was free.
    I chatted with her from a distance and since getting rid of her Fiesta she's saved £100's per month, and was angry that other people in her family told her EV's were not fit for purpose, and they would be a waste. Being a care worker and being paid so little committing a large monthly finance payment she was very worried, but she is now saving money, and her insurance is nearly half the cost. I've told her she should get a proper charger installed as she's using an EVSE 3-pin which isn't ideal, even if the least can only do 6.6kW it has to be better than 2.0-2.3.

    Anyhow hoping to see more users as lock down eases, eventually I might have to start charging for it in a few years, but for now I'd like to do my bit. :)
     
  14. blun

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 1,515

    Location: North West England

    That sounds really good - should probably register myself! I live in a village where lots of people will visit to walk / look around. My only concern would be people using it who didn’t need it if it was on free vend!
     
    Last edited: 25 Feb 2021
  15. Joe T

    Capodecina

    Joined: 1 Apr 2003

    Posts: 11,725

    Location: Northampton

    Lovely story. :)
     
  16. DarrenM343

    Soldato

    Joined: 19 Oct 2008

    Posts: 5,494

    Tbh, you only have to go and look at his other videos. "I do video's about TEsla, SpaceX and Elon Musk related things" :D. The cultists are strong (just kidding) but that video will get lots of views from TEsla fans especially as it backs the case for what they want to believe. Tesla cannot have any competition :p

    I doubt all these EV companies will survive. Lucid I do find a little odd for some reason.
    Need these to hit our streets ($4500 EV city car) https://www.techradar.com/news/this-super-cheap-electric-car-is-outselling-tesla-but-you-cant-buy-it
     
    Last edited: 26 Feb 2021
  17. jpaul

    Capodecina

    Joined: 1 Mar 2010

    Posts: 13,418

    Last edited: 26 Feb 2021
  18. Paul2k12

    Hitman

    Joined: 22 Apr 2003

    Posts: 580

    Location: Newcastle

    Wherever that Tesla M3 LR deal is/was for £180 must have been an error. I’ve just done a quote for the same car and it’s coming up as £390 for 6k miles pa.

    I jumped at the chance of ordering the same car for £360 a month a few weeks ago and thought that was an unbeatable deal. Especially as it happened to be £5 a month cheaper than the SR+.

    There’s a fair few electric cars in the hospital car parks now as my trust (Northumbria) offer free charging and a little while ago had secured a very good deal on Jaguar Ipace’s. I’m coming for a Golf R on private lease so looking forward to the cost saving in fuel alone! First EV for me too.
     
  19. lordrobs

    Capodecina

    Joined: 30 Sep 2003

    Posts: 14,973

    Location: Norwich

    I'd love to see that sort of thing become the go-to city transport but I seriously doubt it will happen in the Western world. Partly because of the "Why spend £3.5k on a car when I can use a chunk of that as a deposit and scrape together the montlies on something better" mindset.

    EDIT - Actually what I'd REALLY like to see is something akin to circa 2000 Superminis in terms of complexity, (relative) cost and size.

    EDIT 2 - I guess by the time you allow for the 'Chinese factor' in terms of pricing (bearing in mind a Model 3 is the equivalent of £27k over there) that little EV probably pops out at about £7.5k in real terms. Still a cheap EV for someone who needs cheap, clean transport and leaves scope for something, potentially, quite good not too far north of £10 - 15k in the future from one of the Chinese manufacturers.
     
    Last edited: 26 Feb 2021
  20. Journey

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 9,384

    Location: West Midlands

    Shoehorned BEV into ICE car again, seems like a good alternative if you were going to buy a GLA at £35k+ since the EQA seems to be starting from £41k and the depreciation hit should be much less. The 263 mile WLTP range with a battery 79.8kWh pack, and only 66.5kWh useable seems low but apparently they are launching another model with the same pack, just more 'efficient' which will give 310 miles WLTP. That to me is interesting, does the more efficient model include the heat pump only, and does it allow more use of the fitted pack, not having such a large buffer at the top and bottom of the pack?