When are you going fully electric?

[Psycho Sonny]

I can see people like myself who don't have a garage or driveway to charge at home are going be hit really hard by these EV's

Am really not looking forward to ever owning a EV i can see sky high TAX charges (Most likely charged by the mile) and sky high charging prices

Plus they cost an arm & leg to buy one in the first place

Yeah who gives a crap about breathing in clean air. Not causing millions of premature deaths. Poisoning and destroying the food chain.

Destroying the planets biodiversity. Turning rainforests into deserts. Destroying wildlife populations to the point more and more species become extinct monthly.

Maybe next time you think ev cars are the devil go out and suck on an exhaust pipe for ten minutes.

The number of times I've seen an old diesel fill a 500 square metre radius with thick black smoke that takes minutes to dissipate is ridiculous.

Kids are breathing that crap in and causing them all sorts of issues from a young age. The levels of toxic fumes are 5 times the limit on some streets. Kids are now dying from this in their teens in the UK.

An electric car will come down in price dramatically. It has less parts to begin with. No water pump, no injectors, no egr valves, etc. So it's got much less to go wrong and once the tech becomes cheaper it's going to cost a lot less than an ice in time.

You already have nissan leafs, seat, Kia, Hyundai leading the way with cheap electric cars. Even the BMW i3 is cheap now second hand.

Give it 5-10 years and Elon Musk will have single handedly driven battery technology ahead by 50 years.

I imagine in the future you will be able to rent a long distance battery. Where your car comes with say a basic range like 50-100 miles and then you can plug a large battery pack into the car where the bonnet is or under the boot and boost your range to 200-500 miles depending on the battery pack. Or you may be able to buy one as an option. Where you take it out and use it to store electric at home using your solar panels and if you need it in your car you pick it up and shove it in the car. It's going to be extremely heavy so probably a modular type battery that comes in pieces that slot in like large cartridges.

That way your not lugging around or paying for an expensive battery but renting it when you only really need it or using it to benefit at home when not needed in the car.

Again if trains switch to electric and you automate them with AI you can effectively get rid of drivers. Get rid of staff at stations and you just scan your phone at the barrier and again when you get off and it works out the cheapest option at the end of the week or month and then bills you. Making trains cheaper, cleaner and faster when they are fully automated. The thought of sticking with ice now seems to be for the ignorant. Those that don't have driveways will either need to use public transport, taxis, bicycles or buy a garage nearby.

I imagine that will be the future where there will be massive car park style garages built where people store their cars and they charge them there and you get billed monthly.

It's how it works in Canada. The sky train only opens it doors for like 10 seconds that's all the time everyone has to get on or off. And it's off again. The next one will be along in 10 minutes. You have to make sure your prepared before hand to get on and off rather than sitting on your seat til the last possible second slowing the whole process down. So public transport becomes a lot better.

If we keep on doing what we are currently doing it's only going to take 9 years before the planet is ruined. That's all the time we have left to reverse the damage.

It's why the targets keep on being brought forward. Who cares if things are more expensive temporarily for a while if it means future generations survive and have a planet that is full of life. The alternative is you keep your car and in 10 years time we will be fighting for food and water because there won't be enough to go around as the land has been destroyed and so have the water resources to keep the land from turning to a desert.

The amount of carbon that is in the atmosphere is approaching an extinction level event on our current trajectory.

So those moaning about costs really do need to look at the bigger picture.

 

[Simon]

Ah yes. Don’t moan about the costs. You magically find some money to buy a car ?

Talk about a rant !

‘wifey. Can you give us a hand plugging in this 400kg battery please ‘

 

[[TW]Fox]

The number of times I've seen an old diesel fill a 500 square metre radius with thick black smoke that takes minutes to dissipate is ridiculous

The key word there being an old diesel. You might as well say look at the emissions from that old coal power station generating that electricity. Things move on both in terms of clean power generation and cleaner emissions from cars.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

The key word there being an old diesel. You might as well say look at the emissions from that old coal power station generating that electricity. Things move on both in terms of clean power generation and cleaner emissions from cars.

And things are moving on from old coal powered stations too.

We are moving towards renewables in terms of solar, wind, wave, geothermal, etc.

Cars need to move too as do homes, public transport, etc.

We need to be reversing the damage not keeping it going. Volvo just declared in 9 years time they will no longer have a diesel or petrol car in production.

People are talking about taxes and duties before they are even a thing.

Deflecting from the real elephant in the room which is toxic levels of fumes many times the limit outside that your breathing in daily. Large amounts of desertification around the planet. Oceans filled with plastic and pollution which then destroys wildlife. Coral reefs turning into fossils as the ice caps continue melting.

The world needs to change. It isn't like people should be given the option to continue destroying the planet.

Option A - drive carbon positive car and world over within 75 years

Option B - drive carbon negative car and the human race survives

All the morons who spout on about the carbon it takes to produce a new car have to factor in new cars are required anyway regardless of what engine is in them. Over time it's much better to have a carbon negative car.

Electric cars arguably will last longer with less to go wrong, batteries can be recycled and reconditioned and with time the cost of owning one will come down.

Every major manufacturer is pushing this ethos of reusing stuff, recycling and green. IKEA, BP, Shell, Tesla are all heavily invested in the future. They know what the future holds. BP just bought electric petrol station technology. Chargemaster. To convert their petrol stations into electric stations.

People crying about ice cars are just ignorant of the facts or too dumb to understand that the world cannot continue to use carbon emitting fuels.

People are saying hydrogen but that's extremely combustible and we all know what happened with previous airships that used it. Not safe for use unless in a controlled safe space. So I can see it being used in power plants but not in cars.

Crying about taxes before the tax has even been introduced is a great one. Currently you can save on average a minimum of £100 a month by going electric for the average consumer on fuel. Which offsets buying into the new technology.

It's why I'm seriously considering it as a viable option for replacing the wife's car in the near future.

 

[Simon]

You write so much stuff which is literally your thought as if it fact /policy/ truth.

Where is this carbon negative car?

BP didn’t buy chargemaster to replace petrol stations.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

I love the idea hydrogen is used in power plants

 

[b0rn2sk8]

The total cost of ownership for something like a model 3 SR+ isn’t that far off a well equipped c class or 3 series over the lifetime of the vehicle.

The issue is that you would have to keep the car for most of the lifetime of the vehicle which very few people do. Most people want a new one after 3 years which means you don’t really get the advantage of low running costs for long enough to make the higher purchase price worth it.

Also no one pays list price for a 3 series or c class where as you will pay list price for the model 3 which skews the numbers somewhat and there is little transparency to what most people actually pay.

 

[GinG]

I think the issue is people are scared of change.

There is so much crap on the Internet about range issues, cost of batteries to replace in 8-10 years time etc etc it puts people off.

6 months ago I didn't consider an electric for this reason... Was given a e-golf as a courtesy car and me and the wife were hooked and recently placed an order for an ID3 which we can't wait for delivery.

We dont have the worry about maintenance or batteries etc etc but we are looking forwsrd to the positives... Cheap costs per mile, better for the environment, no more trips to the petrol station (for this car anyway) and having the fantastic performance that comes with it.

We do have a caravan so the Superb is staying until a vehicle becomes viable... I hope in the next few years this will be the case as its at 82k miles and 6 years old now and ideally don't want to get another combustion engine if we can get away with it.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

It's literally people refusing to evolve with the times I've seen it in workplaces where you try and implement positive changes and people are totally against it.

I used to work in a large office where it housed around 1500-2000 employees.

The people at the top decided for the future their old office portfolio had to go rather than having 80 offices dotted around the country they were going to downsize to 7. That meant that some would be made redundant as it was a 150 mile to their nearest office in some cases if they didn't want to relocate. Obviously that's not an option for a lot of people. Obviously it makes sense paying for 7 offices is going to be a lot cheaper than 80.

However my office was literally moving 10 miles away. For me I was already traveling 5 miles away from the city to get to it. I would now be going 5 miles into the city to get to the new office for me it was perfect as my commute simply changed direction that was all.

However all the folk who were local were up in arms. They had it so good for so long they could walk to work and stumble out their house and be in the office within 5 minutes.

They were complaining about everything. Think of the local town centre which was already falling apart and needed replaced a decade ago at minimum. Constantly leaking all over the place, full of barbers and salons and cheap shops.

The new office would be located bang in the city centre where there is an abundance of better places to go and spend your money.

They complained about travel costs even though the company was going to be paying any increase for 3-5 years. So a non issue. They had 3-5 years to decide if they wanted to move closer or not bare in mind it's only 10 miles away. They could find another job in that time too. But still they complained.

A lot of older folk were against people working from home. Now due to the pandemic the same people are saying it's great and they want to keep doing it when things go back to normal. When forced to change people see the benefits, they cannot see the wood for the trees.

So many people are used to the status quo. Literal sheep's who follow the herd and are scared of change. It's why we have people who are capable of making decisions high up making them for them.

Also keeping a car for 3 years from brand new is not what the majority do.

I'm fact if I was to go outside now and count how many cars are less than 3 years old on people's driveways compared to older cars I'm guessing it would be less than 10%.

So the fact is if 5% of people don't really get the added benefit of low running costs those folk would have bled money anyway changing cars every 2-3 years.

Residual values on electric cars more than make up for it. On the premium models anyway.

I can't wait for the day when fresh air is actually fresh. Luckily I live in the countryside but the times I have to get in the car and I'm behind a diesel car I'm literally choking. I have to tell the wife to stay back keep at least triple the distance you normally would and switch the car to recirculating air as soon as we get near the city.

 

[Simon]

It’s a very odd view to have as someone who owns a hybrid which is both an ICE and EV. Why haven’t you gone EV only yet

 

[[TW]Fox]

It's literally people refusing to evolve with the times

yup that's literally it, that's the reason people are reluctant to spend 40 grand on a car with variable range - they are just refusing to evolve with the times.

Think about the man in the street. Currently, he puts 50 quid in his diesel Megane which cost him £10k used, is modern, well equipped an Euro 6 compliant and he drives up to 500-600 miles on it before needing to refuel, which he does in about 2 minutes. You honestly think the only thing stopping him dropping 40 grand on an an EV is the fact he refuses to evolve with the time? Where is the actual practical benefit to him of a change right now? It'll just cost him more money.

I'm not scared of evolving with the times and I've love a really nice EV - and a manufacturer has just released a really nice EV which looks to offer everything my current car does and more at the cost of range. Oh but it's 90 thousand quid.

 

[chaparral]

Yeah who gives a crap about breathing in clean air.

Not that many people by the looks of it

How many people have cancelled there holidays due to plane/ship/cruise liner etc emissions
How many people bought a lower power consumption 30" TV instead of a 40+" TV or cancelled buying a SPA , High power PC etc etc to cut power station emissions
How many people jump on there push bike or walk to work or anywhere when it raining when they own a petrol or diesel car
The list is endless

My local government charges one the highest fuel duty taxes compared to anywhere (73.4p per litre) and does that money go back to helping my island be greener by doing things like using that money to install EV chargers around the island to help people towards buying a EV not a chance millions of it every year is just used for things like paying for there own airline to fly planes & jets

 

[jpaul]

Also no one pays list price for a 3 series or c class where as you will pay list price for the model 3 which skews the numbers somewhat and there is little transparency to what most people actually pay.

Tesla might aspire to a transparent fixed online list price , but, now that there is competition, singularity may arrive faster, having seen this £26K id3

 

[Psycho Sonny]

It’s a very odd view to have as someone who owns a hybrid which is both an ICE and EV. Why haven’t you gone EV only yet

Because when I was in the market for a change of vehicle they weren't a viable option.

They now are but I'm not in the market for a car.

My next car will most likely be electric or at bare minimum a hybrid again as it's been fantastic and I can see how even better an electric would be.

I don't need range. I don't do more than 8000 miles between both our cars before the pandemic that's now circa 4k miles during the pandemic between both cars.

So I'm now thinking get rid of both cars in 2-3 years and replace with one electric car preferably a Tesla but that new ioniq looks great and tbh probably the far more sensible option.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

yup that's literally it, that's the reason people are reluctant to spend 40 grand on a car with variable range - they are just refusing to evolve with the times.

Think about the man in the street. Currently, he puts 50 quid in his diesel Megane which cost him £10k used, is modern, well equipped an Euro 6 compliant and he drives up to 500-600 miles on it before needing to refuel, which he does in about 2 minutes. You honestly think the only thing stopping him dropping 40 grand on an an EV is the fact he refuses to evolve with the time? Where is the actual practical benefit to him of a change right now? It'll just cost him more money.

I'm not scared of evolving with the times and I've love a really nice EV - and a manufacturer has just released a really nice EV which looks to offer everything my current car does and more at the cost of range. Oh but it's 90 thousand quid.

Yes because someone running an old Renault Mégane is the prime market for a £40k Tesla.

What a great argument.

He would be buying a Nissan leaf for £6k.

And who does 400 miles a day in a Mégane?

 

[R4z0r]

yup that's literally it, that's the reason people are reluctant to spend 40 grand on a car with variable range - they are just refusing to evolve with the times.

Think about the man in the street. Currently, he puts 50 quid in his diesel Megane which cost him £10k used, is modern, well equipped an Euro 6 compliant and he drives up to 500-600 miles on it before needing to refuel, which he does in about 2 minutes. You honestly think the only thing stopping him dropping 40 grand on an an EV is the fact he refuses to evolve with the time? Where is the actual practical benefit to him of a change right now? It'll just cost him more money.

I'm not scared of evolving with the times and I've love a really nice EV - and a manufacturer has just released a really nice EV which looks to offer everything my current car does and more at the cost of range. Oh but it's 90 thousand quid.

This is the fundamental problem. The environmental costs of good and services is not priced in to the costs of most things. Until that happens, the green alternatives will only appeal to the most altruistic of people.

 

[[TW]Fox]

He would be buying a Nissan leaf for £6k.

No he wouldn't because a £6k Leaf does almost nothing his Megane does.

And who does 400 miles a day in a Mégane?

No idea but I didn't say they did. I said he puts 50 quid in, and he's good for 500 miles without considering where to plug in, whether to install a wallbox or whatever. It's his current situation. You can't pretend it isn't or tell him he doesn't need that range - he currently has that range and the problem EV fans have is they refuse to acknowledge that perception beats reality and most car owners perceive range as an issue they currently don't have a problem with when using an ICE car.

For most people, they are satisfied with what their current car does and how it dos it. What problem is investing in an EV solving for Megane man? He's clearly not that interested in the ultimate in refinement or he wouldn't be driving a diesel Megane anyway.

 

[Journey]

It's funny 'cause I used to brim my tank with £70 worth of diesel, not because I needed to do 500-600 miles of range in it, but because it was convenient and saved time rather than putting £15 in and going back 4x+ as often.
Max miles per day was 40 miles and that was on the odd occasion the rest it was under 30, or 20. So a full tank of fuel would last 3 week unless I did loads of miles at a weekend which happened once every few months at the very most.
Being able to plug in at home when I need to, be that every day or every week, is much more convenient and saves me more time than I'll ever waste on the odd very long journey where I need to plugin and wait a little bit, and collectively even saves time over brimming that tank 17-18 times per year or more.

I was satisfied with the old car, then I got the new one and realised that both are either just and inconvenient or convenient depending on how you look at it, you can spin the argument for/against however you like, but for me is nicer to drive, nicer technology, and saves me time.

 

[Abraxaz1]

I love the idea hydrogen is used in power plants

You say that but national grid experimenting mixing up to 70 / 30 hydrogen to natural gas (methane) in old decommissioned pipework. They are also working with slot of local distribution networks.

So the chance of the base load being supplied by hydrogen could become a thing quite soon. Especially with the development loans the government is chucking at the project.

 

[RoboCod]

I've done a few long journeys in the ioniq 38kw now and when cruising along the motorway it's surprising (ish) just how much more efficient the journey is if I keep it <70 as opposed to just a few mph >70. Today I covered a return journey of 130 miles and on the way there I set it at 68. On the return leg I thought I'd speed up a bit and just watched that battery disappear. Back to ECO+ and 68 on the last leg haha.