Soldato
Ah yes, I can definitely see manufacturers opting to be reliant on other manufacturer's charging networks. That's a really great idea.
When are you going fully electric?
- Thread starter Ricochet J
- Start date
-
- Tags
- electric
Ah yes, I can definitely see manufacturers opting to be reliant on other manufacturer's charging networks. That's a really great idea.
Soldato
I listened to an oldish Avid Technology podcast with Luke Dowell yesterday, ex JLR, Dyson and at the time headed BP Chargemaster. CCS can offer auto payment etc when the car and charger handshake but thts to come with time, the focus still is getting the “please start charging” bit sorted between all the interpretations of CCS2 protocol.
Electric Highway funding mainly came from Eu money as I understand it.
OEMs investing in charging infrastructure... it’s called Ionity...
Electric Highway funding mainly came from Eu money as I understand it.
OEMs investing in charging infrastructure... it’s called Ionity...
Last edited:
ionity also isn’t expensive for cars built by the manufacturers that contributed to the network.
It’s only expensive for those who didn’t. I don’t really have an issue with that in principle at the moment. It’s more open than Tesla’s network, Tesla’s can use it even though they have contributed nothing to it, it just costs more.
The only issue with it is that I’m fairly sure some of the funding came from the EU so they should be pricing it the same for everyone while they take advantage of taxpayers money.
It’s only expensive for those who didn’t. I don’t really have an issue with that in principle at the moment. It’s more open than Tesla’s network, Tesla’s can use it even though they have contributed nothing to it, it just costs more.
The only issue with it is that I’m fairly sure some of the funding came from the EU so they should be pricing it the same for everyone while they take advantage of taxpayers money.
Soldato
for the sake of the many people with pensions I’m glad you were not running the show.
Soldato
Just a heads up, paragraph 1 and 3 contradict each other in your post
They don’t, part of the funding was EU (please correctly if I am wrong), the rest of it was put up by VW (as part of their diesel gate fiasco) and others like BMW, Ford etc. also contributed.
Edit: see-
https://ionity.eu/en/about.html
The eu put up at least £39m.
https://www.electrive.com/2019/04/25/ionity-secures-funding-for-europ-e-charging-network/
Last edited:
Soldato
I definitely wouldn't have an EV at the moment if I couldn't charge at home, it's just so hit and miss whether public chargers work or not, or whether there is space to charge, plus of course the time it takes. Love my i3 though, use it daily and just charge it at home about once a week. I have a petrol estate car for anything the i3 can't handle, but will maybe look at something like an iX3 or EQC in a couple of years when prices are down and the charging network is better.
Soldato
Lets see your suggestion of how they could have done it better, bearing in mind we are talking almost zero government incentives here, so there is no point going, "well the government should have ..."
The range of initial BEV's was so short, I am pretty sure there was no interest as, who'd want to do a long journey in a car with a 100 miles rage? That was the issue, and Nissan/Renault/Tesla (maybe BMW) were the only ones who would benefit, but not on such small sales volumes, so it all comes down to who was willing to invest, and only 1.5 companies did, and only one has continued to bother. Now there are new players on the scene with Ionity, which only opened their first charging station 3 years ago and are expanding rapidly (pun totally intended), but I already highlighted the issue.
I am glad there are the likes of Instavolt and Gridserve in existence now, BP might eventually pull their finger out and sort out the BP (what ever new name it has this week) network, and Shell could be a serious contender if they wanted to be, but for now it's just a handful here and there. So there will be one network wholly owned and run by a car company, and I can imagine the utter **** show if they open it up and started charging 69pkWh to non-own brand cars, there'd be headlines in every paper ripping them a new one, even if they did just make (almost) everyone who has an EV's life easier. They'd be justified in doing so though, right, or not?
Soldato
I wasnt the one who stated that the manufacturers had "failed"!
Soldato
You continued the discussion, so have nothing to offer at all? Great response by the way, don't bother continuing.
Soldato
I picked you up on your comment that the manufacturers had "failed", going on to demonstrate that there wasnt a practical alternative.
Soldato
I picked you up on your comment that the manufacturers had "failed", going on to demonstrate that there wasnt a practical alternative.
You did no such thing, all you said was "Are you suggesting each manufacturer should have a network of (possibly proprietary) charging stations?"
Nope I didn't say that at all, although could you say that the entire Ecotricity network was proprietary as it only had rapid charging for Nissan at the time, but CCS didn't exist, so who was at fault there then? Oh yeah, it was the Audi, BMW, Daimler, Ford, General Motors, Porsche and Volkswagen who agreed to this new standard, then not bother making any charging points. You have to laugh.
Soldato
It was the first of several questions trying to get to the bottom of how the manufacturers had "failed" and what they could realistically have done differently, which as we've demonstrated, isnt much at all. In the end, you've ended up asking me for my suggestions!
Soldato
Hindsight is always the easy part of any Journey.
Soldato
It was the first of several questions trying to get to the bottom of how the manufacturers had "failed" and what they could realistically have done differently, which as we've demonstrated, isnt much at all. In the end, you've ended up asking me for my suggestions!
Sorry but I didn't get any of that at all for your 'questions' you asked me, so I asked you. I said they failed to implement any decent charging solutions, which is true. You opted to query me on what they should have done (not my job) my rebuttal was to also ask you, once I had answered but you just avoided the question completely.
So do you have any input at all, or are you the only one allowed to ask someone else what they should have done? So in the end I've stated what I believe should have been done, you've offer naff all other than trying to cause an argument, even though they have as I rightly said done nothing.
Soldato
The point is, there's likely nothing they could have done which would have provided a good solution for EV drivers. Do you really want the so-called "greedy' car manufacturers getting into car charging? I think the mess of proprietary systems, different access, different apps, different prices might be even worse than it is now! I think car manufacturers have succeeded, by staying out of charging!
Charging should absolutely be separate from car manufacturing and selling. In the same way that no car manufacturers have invested in oil; something which we should probably be thankful for.
If there is demand for public charging, then the market will create a solution. I think that solution should be third-party, as with oil, and not from the manufacturers (that would be awful). Some light government regulation (such as ensuring access, payment via debit/credit card, planning, etc) should be all that this is required.
I just see it as a huge missed opportunity for manufacturers.
The arrival of EVs is going to mean reduced service/parts revenues going forward, that could have been replaced with rapid charging, it’s a new way to monetise the car after you have already sold it and it effectively pushes the oil companies out of the ‘fuel’ market’.
I don’t know why you’d consider it to be a disaster though.
The arrival of EVs is going to mean reduced service/parts revenues going forward, that could have been replaced with rapid charging, it’s a new way to monetise the car after you have already sold it and it effectively pushes the oil companies out of the ‘fuel’ market’.
I don’t know why you’d consider it to be a disaster though.
Soldato
It's a huge missed opportunity for government/local authority really.
Soldato
I think we all need to wait as see if this charging stuff today actually functions as something to sustain itself, let alone make profit before we jump to conclusions
That is something which was never going to happen. Not wanting to get into politics or anything but our Government is allergic to owning profit making enterprises, they'd rather sell them off cheap and rent them back instead of using them to generate revenue for the treasury. That's another conversation though.
I think we all need to wait as see if this charging stuff today actually functions as something to sustain itself, let alone make profit before we jump to conclusions
Well yes. The thing is, it can't not be sustainable and at the end of the day. It really comes down to how much of a premium over flat rate home charging it ends up being. The faster it goes in, the more expensive the electrons.
I would pay Ionity's 69p/kwh at a service station if I needed to. Yes, its expensive and yes I'd moan about it but my time is more important than diverting off the trunk road to find a cheaper charger which will inevitably be slower. It's an EV so will only be taking enough to get to the next charger and that's it. It's exactly the same as motorway fuel, I might use it twice a twice a year so the extra cost is almost irrelevant in the grant scheme of things.