1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Why being an Engineer means nothing in this country

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Ricochet J, 19 Feb 2009.

  1. KaHn

    Capodecina

    Joined: 13 Oct 2004

    Posts: 13,177

    Location: South Shields

    What do you do? Also what course and what uni?

    KaHn
     
  2. Dugganator

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 7 May 2006

    Posts: 1,958

    I think people in here should be more proud of their own achievements, more then worrying about a word or other peoples. So what if a washing machine repair man calls him self an engineer and you spec millions of pounds of equipment I think clearly you can see the difference.. so why care. There are millions of jobs that have titles that possibly they shouldn’t have or aren’t relevant.

    I mean I work in IT and my job title almost changes monthly depending on what I'm doing (do to the nature of different projects etc). I just refer to my self as a pc monkey.... feed me a banana give me a spanner and I'll swing in and fix the pc, server or infrastructure. I get called an engineer all the time and I don’t have a degree but people at the same level as me have degree's and get called engineers. Honestly why care so much its not like your going to get the engineer title set to only people that have sat engineering degrees.

    I just think some people in here are far to up there own backsides its not a e-penis swinging title contest.... although that would be a good post... :D
     
  3. Jonnycoupe

    Capodecina

    Joined: 19 Oct 2002

    Posts: 13,537

    Location: N.Warks

    Because the titles are skewing salaries, such the washing machine man and speccer of a million quid machine are not paid a significant amount differently.
     
  4. dannyjo22

    Caporegime

    Joined: 9 May 2005

    Posts: 30,873

    Location: Cambridge

    How are the scewing salaries, I don't get that comment mate. Our mechs call themselves engineers. I have no problem with that, they are paid the market rate for the job they do and availability to replace them. As am I. Its harder to replace the license guys so they get double the money.

    Surely the washing machine fixer is paid for how difficult his job is and the training required to replace him.

    The same must be true for the speccer of a million quid machine. He would be paid much more than the washing machine fixer if his job was that hard to train for or there was a short fall in people attaining the required qualications?

    Its interesting though because I guess your experience depends on where you have worked. When I worked at Marshalls never once in all the time I was there did I hear a designer get called an engineer. Regardless of degrees or qualifications.

    As I've said before CAD and the ability to train people fast to use it really hit the designers money there. When I started there in 90 they got a lot more money than the shop floor. Even in the apprenticeship phase they got paid much more. Now they are a good 10-20k down on the shop floor.
     
  5. Bubo

    Soldato

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 7,003

    Location: Scun'orp

    If anyone asks me I say I am a "professional engineer". I leave out the mechanical bit as they would usually assume it was something to do with car maintance. If they are interested such that they follow up asking what type of engineering I tell them etc, but if they don't I assume they are not really bothered either way and leave it at that.
     
  6. Geek

    Associate

    Joined: 1 Oct 2008

    Posts: 82

    Pipeline Engineering specifically for the oil and gas industry.
     
  7. Geek

    Associate

    Joined: 1 Oct 2008

    Posts: 82

    Yes, I just thought you were smart enough to add in the "right proveable competences and experience" yourself.
     
  8. KaHn

    Capodecina

    Joined: 13 Oct 2004

    Posts: 13,177

    Location: South Shields

    Also what course and uni?

    KaHn
     
  9. rypt

    Capodecina

    Joined: 22 Mar 2008

    Posts: 11,535

    Location: London

    Quote of the thread
     
  10. Dugganator

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 7 May 2006

    Posts: 1,958

    Glad someone liked it :D
     
  11. Dugganator

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 7 May 2006

    Posts: 1,958

    Well said
     
  12. Dinomania

    Mobster

    Joined: 21 Apr 2003

    Posts: 4,328

    Aye. Electronic Engineer usually brings on the assumption that I would fix a telly. Occasionally I stick the word "Design" in the middle.

    The main annoyance over the fact that 'Engineer' in this country isn't considered 'professional' isn't only due to people down the pub getting-it-wrong, but also that mortgage lenders etc. don't seem to know how professional the work of a design engineer truly is. I've known people who are running multi-million dollar projects, heads of departments, HUGELY respected and very well paid - struggle to land a mortgage. Also compared to the 'professions' engineers are extremely underpaid for their level of expertise. Grrr.

    I think some of the confusion comes over the roots of the word 'engineer' - in this country it evokes thoughts of machinery, mechanics in overalls, steam trains, cars, and so on.

    In Europe, engineers are known as - for example - ingenjör (Sweden) / ingénieur (France) / Ingenieur (Germany) - all from the root of the word "ingenious" - which makes us think more of clever, cunning, inventor-types.
     
  13. fendi

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 23 May 2005

    Posts: 2,152

    I know a person who is a part time mechanic and he refers to himself as an engineer when people ask his profession just because he fixes engines.

    Also, a friend works for Virgin Media, he refers to himself as an installation engineer when people ask him.
     
  14. Jonnycoupe

    Capodecina

    Joined: 19 Oct 2002

    Posts: 13,537

    Location: N.Warks

    Neither of those job attributes constitute the word engineer, which is more my point i guess.

    I also get annoyed when jobsite sends me MOT tester jobs.
     
  15. Dinomania

    Mobster

    Joined: 21 Apr 2003

    Posts: 4,328

    The former is almost valid, really, given that he works on engines.

    This is why we're so muddled, we ought to be "Ingenier"!
     
  16. Psycrow

    Mobster

    Joined: 16 Jan 2003

    Posts: 4,948

    Location: Kirkcaldy, Scotland

    I'm an electrical design engineer (or "proper" engineer by your logic) I couldn't care less who calls themselves an engineer. I enjoy my work as its very challenging, i get paid well for it, who cares about anyone else. Half the time I dont even use an email signature as some people are so pretentious about it. You get guys with <Name> (CENG,IET,CIBSE, BENG HONS, HND) and I just think, do you think so little of yourself you need to add all that!

    If you feel the need to have a title that somehow in your mind puts you above the general public then theres something weird going on.
     
  17. Bubo

    Soldato

    Joined: 18 Oct 2002

    Posts: 7,003

    Location: Scun'orp

    heh, this has brougt back fond memories of playing Return to Castle Wolfenstein multiplayer. "Ve need an In-jin-ear!"

    "I'm a Loytnunt"
     
  18. Psycrow

    Mobster

    Joined: 16 Jan 2003

    Posts: 4,948

    Location: Kirkcaldy, Scotland

    Arm the dine a mite
     
  19. p4radox

    Capodecina

    Joined: 1 Oct 2004

    Posts: 10,767

    Location: Prague

    I agree. For it's not a pretentious "oh I wish people knew how amazing I am", it's more that I wished people understood the profession.

    Sums it up really.
     
  20. magmax

    Gangster

    Joined: 26 Jun 2008

    Posts: 267

    Here Here

    I myself am an engineer, spent four years at uni now dealing in structures etc..and someone who can unscrew a bolt on a washing machine can also call themselves an engineer tut tut. Try putting washing machine engineer on you CV in Europe or the US and see what happens.
    We get know respect and our pay reflex this.