Why being an Engineer means nothing in this country

[Jokester]

This is becoming increasingly rare.

Yes, because there's not that many people now in the position to do so, so it's not actively advertised, but it still exists. Certainly the IET and IChemE offer this way and they're two of the biggest institutes.

 

[lemonkettaz]

I dont think you can say its just a job title...

Its not even just a job.. a job to me is something you do to make ends meet, whereas something like an Engineer is more of a career.. its much more of an acheivement.

 

[dangerstat]

heavy mathematics

LMAO!

Who really cares about this? There's more people doing degrees these days, people doing Engineering when they got three C's at Alevel and your surprised that they don't get paid what they should?

 

[laissez-faire]

How will you know who to go to for a service if they use the wrong job title.

Solictor - legal scretary
Doctor - nurse
Architect - builder

Wouldn't you feel cheated if you requested the services of one of the former and got one of the latter.

Well no-one looks in yellow pages for a chartered engineer do they? They don't exactly come into contact with the public. People who use real engineers will know the difference.

 

[PlacidCasual]

How will you know the difference?

 

[laissez-faire]

How will you know the difference?

A degree?

 

[Bomag]

Hurrah for the RIBA and the ARB.

Royal
Institute
for
Bleeding
Annoyances

Architects may make nice pretty buildings, but it would be nice if they understood that there needs to be enough materiel in a building to keep the roof up.

I very quickly moved to into bridges.

 

[DB_SamX]

Architect - builder

Just for more info:
http://www.arb.org.uk/news/press-gallery/release-1132067821.shtml
http://www.bdonline.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=426&storycode=3134153&c=1
http://www.architecture.com/Files/R...lution/PracticalMatters/ProtectionOfTitle.pdf

ARB – the statutory regulator established to protect consumer interests - has the power to prosecute anyone who is not an architect, but tries to pass themselves off as such by unlawfully using the title.

I don't know if software architects count.

Well no-one looks in yellow pages for a chartered engineer do they? They don't exactly come into contact with the public. People who use real engineers will know the difference.

Actually they do. Private houseowners often go to the yellow pages to find engineers when they want building work done. I know we have had calls from such people, often only wanting to have a survey done or a wall taken down. Also, one man bands (chartered) advertise in newspapers and so on.

 

[laissez-faire]

Actually they do. Private houseowners often go to the yellow pages to find engineers when they want building work done. I know we have had calls from such people, often only wanting to have a survey done or a wall taken down. Also, one man bands (chartered) advertise in newspapers and so on.

Right so that validates my point, they don't WANT a chartered engineer do they, they want a builder. They are just too stupid to know the difference. The point is that no-one who actually wants to hire an engineer is going to be stupid enough to hire a builder instead!!!!!!!!

If you are an actual engineer there will be OTHER SIGNALS to differentiate yourself from the tradespeople who call themselves engineers. It will not have any effect on the job prospects that there exist washing machine repairmen who see it as a good plan to describe themselves as engineers.

 

[Peter Diffey]

- Imagine if you were a pilot.

- Imagine if bus drivers started calling themselves pilots.

Wouldnt it annoy you?

 

[DB_SamX]

Right so that validates my point, they don't WANT a chartered engineer do they, they want a builder. They are just too stupid to know the difference. The point is that no-one who actually wants to hire an engineer is going to be stupid enough to hire a builder instead!!!!!!!!

If you are an actual engineer there will be OTHER SIGNALS to differentiate yourself from the tradespeople who call themselves engineers. It will not have any effect on the job prospects that there exist washing machine repairmen who see it as a good plan to describe themselves as engineers.

(Note: I don't actually know what your point of view is on the subject as I haven't found all your posts; I'm merely adding to the post above.)

Generally yes to your post but no, actually they do want a chartered engineer sometimes!

Those people who called us wanted a chartered engineer because their building insurance is not valid if they carry out building work that is not signed of by someone chartered. Granted, a builder could fob them off, say he is qualified and sign a piece of paper, but if there was a problem down the line and the insurance people checked his identity, someone would get screwed and there would be no payout for repairs. Chartered Engineers will have PI cover if they work privately.

 

[laissez-faire]

- Imagine if you were a pilot.

- Imagine if bus drivers started calling themselves pilots.

Wouldnt it annoy you?

Not in the least.

I'd just tell people I fly planes, or helicopters. I'm going to be a naval aviator, no-one is ever going to confuse me with a bloody bus driver! And no-one will ever confuse a decent engineer with a builder - there is sufficient other noisy information to create a perfect separation. Read the FHT article.

 

[FrostedNipple]

If you have a degree in engineering becoming chartered is easy as the ImechE are just money grabbers like every other company. All you have to do is wait 4years tick all the boxers, by basically working as an engineer and you are pretty much guaranteed charter-ship.
I loathe them and everything they stand for, my company pays my membership so they can write it on business cards.


That aside i also find it funny that everyone calls themselves engineers. I enjoy hanging out the maintenance crew as they are easy going and can do things i can’t, but that does not make them engineers. I once had an argument where i was working that proved why i was an engineer and they where mechanics.

I said that i could tell them the temperature of a pipe anywhere in the factory before they could tell me. So after much discussion and micky taking, off strolled 1 guy with a thermocouple, i sat down with a pen and some paper. I was correct to 1degC pretty good i think. They no longer argue with me when i call them mechanics and electricians as that is what they are and they are very skilled at it.

what variables did you need to know to work this out?

 

[Wicksta]

- Imagine if you were a pilot.

- Imagine if bus drivers started calling themselves pilots.

Wouldnt it annoy you?

I've heard F1 drivers being called 'pilots' before, should they be annoyed that some commoners who fly planes use the same job title as someone who does a job that only about 20 people a year can do?

Imagine Ron Dennis' confusion when he's looking for a new F1 pilot and accidently employs some ***** or monkey who flies Easyjet planes.

 

[PlacidCasual]

In response to DB_SamX my point was you know a doctor is a doctor or architect an architect because they are protected designations. You know there worth because of the title.

An engineer has no such priveledge. So someone lacking the necessary skills can call themselves an engineer. You would as mentioned have to demand their degree certificate and professional membership documentation, which is a little tactless.

 

[PlacidCasual]

As to job prospects, engineers in Britain do not have the social cache afforded to European or North American engineers and as a consequence are percieved to be relatively underpaid.

 

[Wicksta]

As to job prospects, engineers in Britain do not have the social cache afforded to European or North American engineers and as a consequence are percieved to be relatively underpaid.

And this is really the fault of Fred the Plumbing engineer, rather than the UK engineering industry as a whole? I'd be more inclined to blame high wages/living costs in the UK to be honest. This may change with the exchange rate though.

 

[Bear]

What a lovely idea - but sadly I think you'll find that 90% of the time if you are an engineer you'll be working to pretty stringent guidelines about what you have to, making very minor refinements to things.

Engineers aren't like Da Vinci, coming up with radical new things. They are not inventors. Engineers just work to a script most 90% of the time.

PS I'm a social scientist.

Of course there are stringent guidelines as there is generally a spec you have to work to, budgets, time limits etc., but that doesnt change the fact you can develop new techniques or methods to achieve that goal.

If Engineers werent coming up with radical new things then we wouldnt have come on leaps and bounds in terms of technology since the 1900s. Yes mostly it is evolutionary as opposed to revolutionary but there certainly is lots of creativity and innovation.

PS I'm a social scientist.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

People who need to inflate themselves with titles like that have some personal issues.

Or working for a client on work packages with the consultancy being paid by the hour on a staff grade tier, the letters just a give a bit of clarity to where the money is being spent.

 

[lemonkettaz]

I think the engineers that are pushing the boundaries of new methods may be only 2% of the profession.

I like it when architects and designers think they know the theory side of things when mainly they draw shapes