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Will Respect become 'The Muslim Party'?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by cleanbluesky, 5 May 2006.

  1. cleanbluesky

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    It seems that Respect are doing well in the elections, although there are a few interesting things about this party...

    1) They are new
    2) They seem to have only a single issue
    3) Their leader is unstable
    4) They have a massive Muslim vote

    The party was created by George Gallaway in order to push his anti-war message and seems to have garnered a lot of support from Muslims specifically, I think the majority of members and candidates are Muslims.
    George Gallaway may not be able to hold on to leadship forever, so what will happen when if he has to renounce it?
    Will the Islamic nationalist side of the party increase and will policies reflect other Islamic aims other than just "anti-war" attiude?
     
  2. Arcade Fire

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    Given that only about 2.5% of the population is Muslim though, and that presumably most moderate Muslims will still vote for the big three, will it matter?

    We may see Respect MPs getting in in highly concentrated Muslim areas, but surely it's kind of appropriate that they have a Muslim MP?
     
  3. VIRII

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    Why is it appropriate? Given that only 2.5% of the population are muslim does it then stand to reason that it is appropriate that no more than 2.5% of the MPs in total are muslim and no more than 2.5% of schools have muslim concessions and so on?
    Is it therefore appropriate that white people have white only party politics ......
     
  4. starscream

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    If you look at the areas they are doing well in - http://www.respectcoalition.org/?ite=1072

    It's not just their party that has Muslim candidates though, it is others as well. But is it not right for areas with proportionatly high Muslim populations to be represented by Muslims?

    But there is the British National Party. They too are a relatively new party with a single issue and an unstable leader. Would it be a problem if there was an Islamic party?
     
  5. cleanbluesky

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    1) Im speculating about THE FUTURE, I reailse that Respect isn't the Muslim party right now but...

    2) Representation does not require that the candidate mirrors his electorate.

    BNP have nothing to do with the question, and they are barely comparable anyway.
     
  6. starscream

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    In your first post, you said that you thought the majority of members and candidates were Muslim. If you look at there areas where they are winning seats - http://www.respectcoalition.org/?ite=1072 the candidates for other parties could well be Muslims as well. I totally agree that candidates do not have to mirror the electorate, but would I'm saying is that in area's with higher proportions of social groups, it is more likely that their councillors will be from the same social groups.

    At the moment, yes. But if you are suggesting that the Respect party were be become an Islmamic national party, then they would be directly comparable.
     
  7. Dolph

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    Because, thanks to the constituancy system, the makeup of the local consitutancy or ward is far more important than the national population makeup?

    It's also worth remembering that not everyone judges people exclusively on race or religion, I'd rather vote for a competant muslim than an incompetant christian/atheist/muslim/whatever, especially if that candidate also reflected my views.
     
  8. cleanbluesky

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    In my experience its not (based on a local example)...

    Opposition in areas with high ethnic minorities usually have ethnic minority candidates, sometimes Muslims but they are from a very different community with more varied supporters - whereas Respect seems to be entrenched within the Muslim vote.

    They wouldn't be comparable at all, as an Islamic National party would be based upon a inflexilbe religious ideology with pre-existing and unalterable charter whereas the BNP are free to determine their own rules, beliefs and behaviour.
     
  9. cleanbluesky

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    It seems a lot of people do vote on a basis of class and religious affiliation if what I have seen locally is to be beileved - which is why Respect have a Muslim vote and why Sikh Labour party members have been physically and verbally harassed by Respect members...

    EDIT: I was actually hoping that @if would pop into this thread as I'd like to hear his views on it - I don't think he would be a Respect supporter but I'm sure that he'd have an insight on them...
     
  10. Dolph

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    So are you going to actually present any evidence to back up your ideas or simply respond to everyone with "I've seen different so it must be true"...?

    It's quite an assertion you're making about voting habits, and the direction a specific party is going, I would have hoped there was more than conjecture to back it up.
     
  11. cleanbluesky

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    Its an observation and no, I can't back it up. I must admit that it is unforunate given that you might percieve that I am disagreeing with your point and that citing things without sources often leads to bickering - but its local news and breaking events.

    I'm not sure about voting habits, but it is the way it seems to me. Certainly the candidates for local Respect have all been Muslim and their supporters are majoritively Muslim as well - all on the basis of anti-war I assume.

    Hence why I am openly questioning whether it is the case that Islamic Nationalism is altering the supoprt base and makeup of the Respect Party.
     
  12. VIRII

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    So in other words it is not appropriate then.
    The UK is a geographical area. Perhaps it should be exclusively represented by people who are in the vast majority, after all would that "not be appropriate" ......
    I do love these little nuances and double standards :)
     
  13. SexyGreyFox

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    Of course

    You can have as many Islamic parties as you want because we live in a democracy.
     
  14. Dolph

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    And that has anything to do with what I posted how?..

    How about it should be represented by those the people vote for, irrespective of whatever random attribute you want to discriminate by and claim is a problem this week?
     
  15. starscream

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    Is the Muslim vote entrenched in Respect? I'm not necessarily arguing with you, but the facts that I have found only suggest that many of the candidates were Muslim within areas that have a high Muslim population anyway. The 2 things are not the same.

    I don't think that's true. Just because someone is religious does not mean in all cases that if they are elected they would seek to impose their beliefs on those they represent. If that was the case Jewish councillors would charter for halal meat and catholic councillors would charter for a ban on contreception.
     
  16. VIRII

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    Are you trolling me? "random attribute you want to claim is a problem this week"?
    Care to clarify what you are suggesting? Are you actually suggesting that my political opinions are random and change by the week?

    I can't wait to hear you answer :)
     
  17. cleanbluesky

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    The Respect party are deliberately targetting mosques with their leafletting and support campaign - this shows how confident that they are with a Muslim vote. Labour party (who also have Muslim candidates) do not take such a narrow focus.

    I am not saying that Muslim councillors will push Muslim issues, I am suggesting that Respect councillors may push Islamic-Nationalist issues.
     
  18. cleanbluesky

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    I noticed that - its a big assumption... I hope Dolph doesn't see himself opposing an attitude that isn't manifest in this thread.
     
  19. Dolph

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    You were the one suggesting that MP's should be restricted to be representative of the country as a whole, along with schools and the like.

    Do you believe there will be any benefit to enforcing racial or religious restrictions on who people can vote for?
     
  20. VIRII

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    I have no idea where that came from either, seemed to slip out rather didn't it....
    However if he is allowed to offer up such criticism of me can I do the same? I got a weeks ban last time I did that.