Will Vigor 165 Annex B work in UK?? (FTTC VDSL connection)

[familyman]

Anyone have any experience with the Draytek Vigor 165 (B) in the UK? Appears to be readily avaliable via various online shops in EU and also Amazon UK. The thing is there are 2 variants of the this modem, Annex A (RJ11) and Annex B (RJ 45). Was thinking of ordering from Amazon but they only have Annex B option.

I am on FTTC (about 570m from cabinet) and currently have a FB 7530 modem router which I am very impressed with as it has increased my speeds from 65Mbs to 76Mbps withan SNR of 3.
The problem I have with the FB is that I it cannot be put it into bridge mode (I prefer seperates) however, the FB does has an Annex A or B option in the GUI and I can connect using either of options (syncs slighlty faster on Annex B).

Interestingly the vigor has same/similar xDSL chipset to the FB (Intel VRX518) which is why Im keen to try it. The FB is syncing 10mbs faster than my billion and TP link modems both with broadcom xDS.

I called Draytek UK but they seem unaware of the 165(?!) and could tell me nothing.

Any thoughts at all?? And what is the UK VDSL standard please with respect to Annex type??

 

[bremen1874]

Why wouldn't you use the Vigor 130?

It fully supports BT's VDSL2 connections and is BT approved.

 

[pcfarrar]

The Vigor 165/166 will be out in the UK eventually, just wait for it.

 

[IT Troll]

For some reason network naming schemes like to maximise confusion.

Openreach uses an Annex B bandplan (tone set) from the VDSL2 spec (G.993.2) over Annex A physical infrastructure. So for the UK, the modem hardware/firmware needs to be Annex A, but it will sync using Annex B.

I suspect the option you are seeing in the GUI relates to the bandplan.

For the chipset, it is normally best to match what is used in your street cab. This will be either Infineon, or more commonly, Broadcom.

 

[Alexander Poettinger]

I have just tried a Vigor 165 bought in Germany.
The 165's firmware supports Annex A and B, still I was not able to get a sync on my line.
Will have to see, whether I can make some adjustment to the settings to get it to make a sync

 

[bremen1874]

Why would you bother? None of the extra features are if any use in the UK. It also won’t be approved for use on BT’s network.

Until Draytek in the UK decide to sell it and provide firmware to suit the UK it’s a waste of time.

 

[jamiemac]

I have acquired a Draytek Vigor 165 (Annex A, not B) imported from the Netherlands, working with PlusNet in the UK.

I can happily confirm this seems to work A-OK.

If you're in the UK and want one of the 165's - make sure it is indeed Annex A.

Buying from a German website may land you with Annex B, I personally got mine here - (I'm not sponsored in any way with this company)

https://www.routershop.nl/draytek-vigor-165-a-vdsl2-modem-annex-a/pid=61387

 

[bremen1874]

I still don't understand why anyone would want one of these instead of a Vigor 130.

The 165 doesn't offer any additional features that are of any use in the UK.
It costs the same or slightly more than the 130.
It isn't approved for use on BT's network which the 130 is.

For domestic use, I can't see any reason to buy either of them while there are still old BT supplied modems available which will perform about the same.

What am I missing here?

 

[jamiemac]

I still don't understand why anyone would want one of these instead of a Vigor 130.

The 165 doesn't offer any additional features that are of any use in the UK.
It costs the same or slightly more than the 130.
It isn't approved for use on BT's network which the 130 is.

For domestic use, I can't see any reason to buy either of them while there are still old BT supplied modems available which will perform about the same.

What am I missing here?

Well, I see a few, but not major upgrades (Which is why I am returning the 130)

-Any changes made within the UI that requires a reboot, with the current 3.8.4 firmware, it locks up requiring a power cycle each time) - the 165 with 4.0.2 doesn't have this issue.

-Many more features within the GUI than the UK variant, as it's not locked down, and also the UK variant is forced in Bridge mode.

-The 165 has a faster CPU (660MHz vs 330MHz of the 130) - which can help with cooling, as IMO with the 130 it got rather hot, and because the 165 is expecting a much faster 330Mbps line, the CPU will not work as hard, and I have checked, the 165 is not as hot as the 130 (Its still a bit warm)

-Not sure if this is a common issue, probably my DSL line however I have seen the 130 drop PPP a few times a day, I have yet to see the 165 to drop PPP. (Touch wood)



Again, this is just my experience. I hope this helps

 

[Avalon]

Well, I see a few, but not major upgrades (Which is why I am returning the 130)

-Any changes made within the UI that requires a reboot, with the current 3.8.4 firmware, it locks up requiring a power cycle each time) - the 165 with 4.0.2 doesn't have this issue.

-Many more features within the GUI than the UK variant, as it's not locked down, and also the UK variant is forced in Bridge mode.

-The 165 has a faster CPU (660MHz vs 330MHz of the 130) - which can help with cooling, as IMO with the 130 it got rather hot, and because the 165 is expecting a much faster 330Mbps line, the CPU will not work as hard, and I have checked, the 165 is not as hot as the 130 (Its still a bit warm)

-Not sure if this is a common issue, probably my DSL line however I have seen the 130 drop PPP a few times a day, I have yet to see the 165 to drop PPP. (Touch wood)

Again, this is just my experience. I hope this helps

I couldn’t tell you the last time I had to make change’s on a modem beyond initial config, let alone admire the UI. What are you doing that requires regular changes/reboots/UI admiration?

More features seem pointless unless they are of any practical use, exactly what have you found useful that’s not in the 130? We’ve already seen people do silly things that required DLM resets as they were then too impatient for the issue they caused to resolve itself, in niche cases (ling line ADSL for example) I can see the benefit, but that’s quite a limited audience and one that’s getting smaller day by day in this day and age.

While your observed result (it runs cooler) is correct, your reasoning isn’t. All other things being equal, if you run a CPU at twice the speed it will run significantly hotter than the same CPU at half the speed.

An HG612 is £10-15 and is rock solid (last time I rebooted it was when changing the batteries in the UPS) you can pull stats from it and it works with anything from ADSL up to FTTC. The usage case for the 130 is quite limited in a residential setting, the justification for an imported and uncertified 165 seems even more questionable in residential or business use.

 

[jamiemac]

I couldn’t tell you the last time I had to make change’s on a modem beyond initial config, let alone admire the UI. What are you doing that requires regular changes/reboots/UI admiration?

More features seem pointless unless they are of any practical use, exactly what have you found useful that’s not in the 130? We’ve already seen people do silly things that required DLM resets as they were then too impatient for the issue they caused to resolve itself, in niche cases (ling line ADSL for example) I can see the benefit, but that’s quite a limited audience and one that’s getting smaller day by day in this day and age.

While your observed result (it runs cooler) is correct, your reasoning isn’t. All other things being equal, if you run a CPU at twice the speed it will run significantly hotter than the same CPU at half the speed.

An HG612 is £10-15 and is rock solid (last time I rebooted it was when changing the batteries in the UPS) you can pull stats from it and it works with anything from ADSL up to FTTC. The usage case for the 130 is quite limited in a residential setting, the justification for an imported and uncertified 165 seems even more questionable in residential or business use.

Avalon,

Previously I was relying on my Netgear D7800 for everything (It had an inbuilt DSL modem) - which turned out to be as useful as a fart in a wind storm apparently, it kept requiring power cycles when it would either drop DSL or overheat.

So, long story short i ended up spending some money revamping my entire network.

Currently I have a dual WAN network, one 17A VDSL circuit, the other a 4G connection - at the time of purchasing, I had heard of the HG612, but also some mixed reviews on it.

I thought I wouldnt skimp out so I got the Vigor 130, which overall I was happy with, however then came accross the 165.


After using the 165 for several days, I don't regret getting rid of the 130.

Yes, you're right, half the "unlocked" features on the 165 are of no use in the UK...

But, one feature, thats on the 165 thats not on the 130 is the Email Alert for when the DSL drops, which is handy for keeping logs.

Personally, with the points I made in my previous post, and this one, I am more than happy using the 165 over a 130 or Huawei product.

Also, the point you made about the cooling, I believe this does help with performance, as I said in my previous post, my 130 would drop PPP a few times a day. the 165 has yet to do so, I noticed the 130 syncs at 3dB. whereas the 165 syncs at 4dB, possibly connected?


Question for you though, I'm not completely clued up with DSL modems, see if the DSLAM is Broadcom based, is that better or worse than other variants? I couldn't find much info on that.



Cheers

Jamie

 

[pcfarrar]

Question for you though, I'm not completely clued up with DSL modems, see if the DSLAM is Broadcom based, is that better or worse than other variants? I couldn't find much info on that.

A Broadcom DSLAM will always work best with a Broadcom modem like the HG612. The other good Broadcom bridge modem is the ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A.

Pity that Vigor 165 is Lantiq again as it would have been much better if it was Broadcom...

 

[niceguy235uk]

I had the Zyxel and it was very stable on my ECI cab, but sync was much lower then my 2862.

Main reason was that I found that the SNR could not be adjusted on the Zyxel.