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You will not laugh, you will not cry

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by cleanbluesky, 17 Feb 2006.

  1. cleanbluesky

    Capodecina

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    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/17022006/140/romeo-school-kissing-ban.html

    May I ask what the mentality of people who think that such things would come under "anti-abuse" guidelines...

    I'm curious as to what exactly is wrong at the core of our society when Official Opinion can become so abstract and removed from a sensible reccommendation...

    That or it might just be usual sensationalism
     
  2. dirtydog

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    Seems fair enough :shrug:
     
  3. Borris

    Caporegime

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    Op ed - even from TFA:
    (Emphasis mine.)
    The sensationalism is in the focus on kissing in R&J - the guidelines also call for no nudity or intimate physical contact - I can easily see how that is a measure to prevent potential abuse.

    Are you trolling again?
     
  4. semi-pro waster

    Man of Honour

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    Seems like a bit of a non story, it doesn't actually mean that plays with love scenes don't go ahead, more simply that you don't force a child to kiss another. When a child is young it can be a trauma being forced to have contact with the opposite sex that isn't wanted. If the kids want to kiss they still can but they aren't going to be 'made' to do it and that doesn't affect the meaning or even the flow of the play.
     
  5. Manlove is my forte

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    Its quite simple, really.

    Teacher: Timmy do you want to be Romeo?
    Timmy: Yes
    Teacher: Will be willing to Kiss Sarah?
    Timmy: Hell Yeah!!
    Teacher: Sarah do you want to be Juliet?
    Sarah: Yes
    Teacher: Will you be willing to kiss Timmy
    Sarah: Hell No!!
    Teacher: Jenny will you kiss Timmy?
    Jenny: Yeah, why not.
    Teacher: Do you want to be Juliet?
    Jenny: Yes please
    Teacher: Do you mind kissing Jenny?
    Timmy: No problems here (can I cop a feel too?)
    ----
    Teacher: Romeo + Juliet will be Timmy and Jenny
     
  6. cleanbluesky

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    I would say that the article is sensationalism - but has anyone considered where such an 'advisory' committee has a use and what the existence of such practices indicate?

    Do we need guidelines to explain that we should not force children to have intimate physcial contact - it seems simple to me? What is the social purpose of having suggested regulations on such things?
     
  7. semi-pro waster

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    Ideally no we shouldn't need to have any form of committee to regulate things like these, it should be obvious to all that you don't force children to have intimate physical contact but then in an ideal world we wouldn't have crime either. I may be being totally naive here but I'd assume from the existence of a committee there has been a problem along these lines and therefore it has be necessary to issue guidelines.
     
  8. cleanbluesky

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    Social crimes cannot be compared to social politness - crimes require strict regulation because they can often be serious and require social intervention whereas minor social norms are different, because they are dealt with reflexively by any social group and each social group has differing social norms - two reasons why having a committee to suggest what 'appropriate behaviour' is seems a strange and alien attempt to increase the reach of the government's social control

    You say that there might be a need - but what sort of strange social dysfunction requires government to produce guidelines for social etiquette?
     
    Last edited: 17 Feb 2006
  9. semi-pro waster

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    Where is the bit about social crimes? I mention crime in my post but I don't specify what type here.

    It depends how you define crime what is or isn't appropriate. Are you talking in terms of so called 'white collar' crime such as fraud as opposed to 'ordinary crime' such as assault. The seriousness of the crime doesn't always equate to the seriousness of the sentence as I am sure you are aware.

    If your postulation about society is correct then society would simply have dealt with this (non)issue already but it seems that there is still a problem otherwise it wouldn't even be debated. If the committee is comprised of members of the society(and it almost cannot fail to be unless you import people from outwith) then why can it not suggest what social norms are, based on the committees experience? Their ideas of what society expects and what societies norms are can be just as valid as yours.

    //edit having just seen your edit, it isn't necessarily a strange social dysfunction - some things don't always occur to someone not in that situation so therefore a teacher may not immediately think of the discomfort a child feels at being made to kiss another.
     
  10. dirtydog

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    Or it could just be a common sense move to make sure all teachers are aware that it is inappropriate to force or put pressure on a child to kiss another child. It also presumably stops the authorities from being sued by a teacher or parent for not providing written guidelines on the issue.

    It's ironic that you are employing the same sensationalism that you say you hate :)
     
  11. cleanbluesky

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    I didn't say I hated sensationalism.

    I am discussing the practice of attempting to cosntruct social norms and the mechanism that the particular organisation people are using.

    I would wonder what sort of a person a teacher would be if they rqeuire 'guidelines' to inform them of socially appropriate situations...

    Also, how long until the government are attempting to assert 'official' social manners rather than allowing social conventions to adapt naturally. Behavioural control is not beyond their remit of desire, not the current range of politician who seems to be digging the bottom of the barrel, deep into the basement floor as far as authoritarianism in a democracy is concerned.
     
  12. semi-pro waster

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    Teachers are the same as the rest of us, sometimes they get things wrong and sometimes they may behave inappropriately. I'm sure most teachers will instinctively not put a child into a situation where the child is noticably uncomfortable but if having simple guidelines goes someway to ensuring that then I don't see it as a huge problem.

    No idea as to that one, it does sound just a little bit paranoid to me but maybe I'm being complacent. Some actions that politicians take are obviously objectionable, this one doesn't seem like much of an issue to me.
     
  13. JimmyEatWorms

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    CBS, would you be more comfortable with teachers having a completely free reign in the classroom to enforce what they see as "normal" themselves, which could be wildly out of sync with what is actually socially acceptable to the average man on the street?

    What if a gym teacher thought it was "normal" to have shared changing areas? Should we not have guidelines on whether schools should provide seperate areas for each sex?

    You seem to be under the impression that everybody conforms to "social norms" when there is in fact no such thing.
     
  14. KingOfAquitaine

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    It seems I had deprived teenage years. My school plays never featured nudity :(
     
  15. JimmyEatWorms

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    Mine did...but the perpetrator was expelled soon after :D
     
  16. Nixeh

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    LOL Classic
     
  17. cleanbluesky

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    Such things are traditionally regulated without guidelines. I am sure you wouldn't think it appropriate if the governmnt decided to issue guidelines of how 'you should' socially interact with your family...

    Laws yes, constructions on social etiquette no.

    Social norms are imparted by many complex mechanism, everyone is subject to them in some form or another - unless you have been raised in a bubble, under a rock with your fingers in your ears and your eyes closed of course...
     
  18. cleanbluesky

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    You're not trying to tell me that these guidelines might be redundant?
     
  19. JimmyEatWorms

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    There are guidelines for every small thing that happens within schools

    This isn't about family though, is it?


    Is there really a difference?

    But your idea of social norms may be COMPLETELY different to mine. That is the point.
     
  20. Psyk

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    Makes me wonder if any of the school plays I never saw had any. Considering some of the girls in them I would be seriously missing out! Although considering some of the others I'd hope not everyone is naked :eek: